Is the writing on the wall?

[Mondogarage]

"Month End Tournament Announcement!!!
Hey folks, we got good news and bad news. The bad news is we are postponing July's month end tournament. The good news is we are combining July's month end with August's month end and we will have a "deep stack tournament". Not only will the prize pool be enhanced, but you will have the opportunity to participate with up to $10,000 in play chips!!!

That's right, you will be able to present certificates for this tournament for up to $10,000 in chips!!! We will honor the certificates won in July as well as August, so keep playing and bring in more certs for this event! Everyone will start with $5000 in chips for the first certificate. For every additional cert you present (won in July and August), you will receive $500 in additional chips. The maximum amount of chips will be $10,000!!! So you can bring up to 10 additional certs for this tournament.

We very much appreciate your continued support, we are still committed to offering the most exciting and fun free poker experience in town. We are working hard to reward you for all for your support and commitment to us. Please stay tuned for upcoming announcements and events that will once again supercharge this tour!!!
---doc"

So their monthly is postponed, there's no daily games beyond today listed on their website, and no mention of whom won their 2nd chance tourney that was originally supposed to be July 7th, then postponed to July 21st. Did it even take place?

I stopped playing this tour ages ago, but can someone explain to an outsider how it does not appear that the APT isn't on its last legs? I don't see how this postponement could have been for any reason other than continued financial difficulties, and when you're in them, they longer you're there, the hard it becomes to get out of it.

Anyway, if anyone actually employed by them (as a dealer or otherwise) would care to come here and clarify the current APT situation for us, that would be cool.

[PoWdA]

For some reason there are die hard APT people. The problem is that the bars do not recognize that the APT is having issues all they know is that they bring in buisness so they are happy. I wish I knew the laws and ethics of going into a bar for my tour and telling them about how bad the APT is running thier buisiness and that wether the players voice it to the bar or not, that APT was breaking the law, doesn't pay out, and just let them know they are with a bad company that is going down the drain. I don't know if calling out the APT to thier bars is even legal but I don't see how it isn't if I only tell them facts. Does anyone know if this is legal? Ethical? To go into a bar and tell them that the APT is not what it once was and try to take thier buisiness? They have already taken a few bars from me so I have no problems with that part of it but is this allowed? I would LOVE to pick up some of thier bars, a lot of thier bars, but appearently they don't charge as much as my company so the bars stick with them.

The Poker Tour may not promise $75,000 dollars for first place, and we may not give you a landrover for our big tournament but at least we pay out our humble little prizes without incident or a lease to pay.

[ctswpt76]

I was at the July 21st tourney. It did actually happen, albeit a little slow to start (about 45 minutes late).

But they were bragging about giving out "cash" for the prizes, like that was an amazing thing.....lol

I am no APT fanboy, I just fell into a cert for the 2nd chance tourney about a month ago......I went in with no expectations...

Anyway, I didn't stick around for the finish (busted out 32nd or so out of 114), so I can't say what happened.

Funny side note, I guess the game was delayed because the dealers all left to go cash their paychecks, so they were trying to stall the start until they got back......

Anyway, FWIW.
cts

[Bruno]

Incoming Moe nonsensical ignorant fan rant in: .....three....two.....one....

Funny side note, I guess the game was delayed because the dealers all left to go cash their paychecks, so they were trying to stall the start until they got back......cts

That is hysterical....

I haven't said much about the meeting that Doc and Matt asked me to have with them at the APT about 2 months ago. On purpose. I wanted to see how things would play out. What I took from that meeting was that they thought they were a "marketing company" (Matt said it, I told him he was a poker tour company, he reemphasized that "No, they were a marketing company"), they really weren't poker "afficiandos" (they didn't know who Nolan Dalla, or Linda Johnson, etc. were), they thought that having sleeze (the calendar, the panties, bimbos, etc.) was one of the key ingredients their "investors" wanted, they had dropped large amounts of capital into the racing stuff (which is what they really were into....), etc..... They said that they had done a re-organization, Matt was now CEO, and that they were going to "fix" things. They seemed sincere about that, so I thought I'd see how that went. Apparently, it hasn't gone smoothly.

I thought Doc was a good/nice guy. Matt obviously had some middle level managerial experience. But I really don't think he understood his business, his marketplace, or had a business plan that was viable or executable.

[Mondogarage]

Thanks for the updates from those who know. The one time I met Doc, I thought he was a nice enough guy. I guess the future will hold whatever it holds.

[Poker Goddess]

The last Ive heard, APT is still bouncing checks, writing checks on closed accounts, not paying back their investors nor paying their employees, denying unemployment claims from employees who left because they hadn't been paid for months, working out of Matt's little rented townhouse because they didn't pay the rent on the four offices they were renting on 44th in Wheat Ridge, and, haven't fulfilled their agreements with at least one company for paid-for advertising in their magazine which they're not publishing.

Great marketing.

I'm surprised the players still bother taking the certs out of a dealers hand at the end of a game, since they're worthless. I too heard that "We're not a poker company - we're a marketing company". Perhaps their product should be recalled.

Yes, I work for what APT calls 'the competition'. I don't however in any way consider APT to be competition for the company I am with now.

After working for APT for 8 months, I do have a closet full of snake oil I was sold during my employment that I would love to get rid of, if anyone's interested. The EPA says I can't just dump it down the drain.


Lori Meyer
Poker Goddess

[Wetdog]

Incoming Moe nonsensical ignorant fan rant in: .....three....two.....one....



That is hysterical....

I haven't said much about the meeting that Doc and Matt asked me to have with them at the APT about 2 months ago. On purpose. I wanted to see how things would play out. What I took from that meeting was that they thought they were a "marketing company" (Matt said it, I told him he was a poker tour company, he reemphasized that "No, they were a marketing company"), they really weren't poker "afficiandos" (they didn't know who Nolan Dalla, or Linda Johnson, etc. were), they thought that having sleeze (the calendar, the panties, bimbos, etc.) was one of the key ingredients their "investors" wanted, they had dropped large amounts of capital into the racing stuff (which is what they really were into....), etc..... They said that they had done a re-organization, Matt was now CEO, and that they were going to "fix" things. They seemed sincere about that, so I thought I'd see how that went. Apparently, it hasn't gone smoothly.

I thought Doc was a good/nice guy. Matt obviously had some middle level managerial experience. But I really don't think he understood his business, his marketplace, or had a business plan that was viable or executable.

I think the thread needs a huge APT SUX in the title to get Moe's attention. :)

From what I heard from a former dealer, there will be no dealers in a couple of weeks. Somehow they think the tourneys will be self dealt by the players. I don't know how that will be done when the dealers brought the cards & chips. I guess there will (maybe) be a tournament director.

I know that a couple of their venues are looking to run their own games, one of which has no clue of how to actually run one of these.

Doc is a pretty nice guy but was a pain in the ass to play against. He was constantly away from the table, apparently conducting business.

There will probably be some poker tables for sale in the near future.:cool:

[Poker Goddess]

I think Doc is a nice guy too, however haven't ever played poker with him. Matt does have middle management experience - however it all seems to end exactly the way this is ending.

I'm sure a lot of the tables are already for sale, I heard that well over a dozen of them are missing.. I'm sure being used to recoup someone's missing payroll.. Even Moe posted somewhere on here recently that she knew where to get one for $300. Dunno if it was one of theirs or not (and don't care, so please Moe don't send me another horribly nasty threatening email).

Lori Meyer
Poker Goddess

[rasta]

this is a hoot. Doc (how'd Andrew come up with that?) is a nce guy
but he listens to the wrong folks. Before he got this thing
going, he was listening to his too slick
for me friend from Vegas. Their original thought was to drop in
on cities and put on a big game. Then came the mag. Never could figure
out how that made a diiference in the marketplace. Frankly, I couldn't
see the money in dropping into cities. Race cars? Sounds
like the loser Mark C. to me.Then it was all about
getting some sucker to finance them. Guess they did. But without
a clear vision and the right ops folks, he couldn't deliver. Too bad,so sad. Hate to say something nice about Brian but he really does
have it down. It's tough schlepping tables around everynight and making it
profitable.

[Poker Goddess]

The race cars definitely weren't Mark C's idea - they were Matt's, and only because he thought he could make money off the guys that actually own the race cars (they don't OWN a single one of them - APT was just paying the rent on their space and they were SUPPOSED to pay for their logos and part sponsorship on the cars themselves).

I'm not sure how they got investors either - actually, I'm unsure how anyone with any money to invest could possibly do so without looking a bit further past the words coming out of Matt's mouth. Financials perhaps? Anyone can write anything on paper, or say anything.. but to drop over 100k into a company without having the owner or the financials checked out is just silly, to me.

APT has a lot of work to do to make things right. Brian's been running DPT for four years, doesn't have a magazine, race cars, missing custom choppers, a fleet of still unpaid for Tahoe's... however he does pay his employees, his taxes, awards the prizes promised with checks that don't bounce, and actually makes a small profit doing it. APT might have done well to stop looking at Brian as the 'competition' and call him up and ask for some pointers.

Oh wait, but APT isn't a 'poker' company, it's a 'marketing' company.

I am still trying to figure out what they're marketing, since none of the products they have (sleaze girls, race cars, games in bars, calendar, thousands upon thousands of dollars of stored merchandise, etc etc etc) have made them a cent.

Lori Meyer
Poker Goddess

[JJHurt]

Last year I started playing bar poker with the DPT and really got into it. In January I started to play APT and really enjoyed their game and structure. From a players perspective it was a great place to learn how to play. I made a ton of friends, dealers and players alike.

I am unfortunately one of the people that coughed up the money for both Gold and the Vegas Trip. My reimbursement check bounced etc etc. But I continued to support them. I have a decent business and marketing background. I "stupidly" thought that I could help these guys out. I even offered to do it for "free". But all they have done is jerk me around. I used up 5 paid days off work to play phone tag with them. I agree Doc is a nice person to be around. He however seems powerless to effect change.

I last night went back for the first time and played DPT. had to wait an hour and a half to come into the game with 1k in chips when the blinds were 50 - 100. Put me immediately under the gun. It sucked to have 63 people on the list and only 3 tables and a dealer that arrived late. It was also clear that there were non-working dealers playing. At least at APT they open up other tables to keep the action going. I brought a friend from the APT with me. We both got some good play at the cons. table though. We will be back. maybe get on the list a little earlier though.

Overall I wish that the APT hadn't alienated their player base. I just don't trust them anymore.

Thanks for letting me vent.

BTW the players are all being asked to deal for tips now. No-one is being payed to deal.

[PoWdA]

Not to put down DPT as our tour can have the same problem (wait lists) but I will tell you that at the bars I deal rarely have wait lists and I invite anyone who enjoys bar poker to come and play at The Poker Tour venues. Check us out at www.thepokertour.net . You might be surprised to see how many bars we do have, how well our tour is operated, and how smoothly the games run. We are not the new kid on the block either, we have been around for a few years now and have many happy loyal players and I RARELY hear complaints about how our game is run.

Come join us sometime and have some fun!

[idh78]

I last night went back for the first time and played DPT. had to wait an hour and a half to come into the game with 1k in chips when the blinds were 50 - 100. Put me immediately under the gun. It sucked to have 63 people on the list and only 3 tables and a dealer that arrived late. It was also clear that there were non-working dealers playing. At least at APT they open up other tables to keep the action going. I brought a friend from the APT with me. We both got some good play at the cons. table though. We will be back. maybe get on the list a little earlier though.


Not that I want to come to the defense of BM but my guess is the bar is only willing to pay for the three tables....but if they keep making people wait that long, they are going to stop coming most likely....this was the reason I stopped playing with the DPT....I don't mind waiting 15-20 minutes...but anything longer than that and you won't have any play at all when you come in...

having players deal the game is just asking for trouble...most people can deal fine but really don't fully understand all of the rules....like what to do when a card gets turned before all of the action, when someone reraises all-in for less than the amount to make a complete raise, etc (even DPT doesn't enforce this rule correctly)

and what happens when a player who is dealing busts-out? then do they just turn it over to another player still at the table?

seems like trouble to me.

[DenverPokerTour]

I appreciate your letters and I promise to do my best to fix the problems. May I ask which venue you played at that had 3 tables and 36 on the wait list? Sometimes we just get a "rush" at one of our events now and then, and we don't plan for enough tables. Sorry.
Secondly, you said that the blinds we 50 - 100 when you finally sat down. This shouldn't have happened. the dealers have been instructed to not raise the blinds past 25 - 50 for at least 15 minutes after the last wait list player has sat down.

The Denver Poker Tour does pay its' dealers. We have actually no plans to go to a self deal game. Perhaps, a dealer stepped up on their off night and offered to deal. He/she would have been off the clock and perhaps working on tips for that time. (Not a good idea in my opinion.) Our opening speech actually says "The game is absolutely free, and you are not required to tip your dealers in order to play". Now sometimes the people in the audience will yell "Tip your dealers", but our staff is instructed not to solicit tips. If players want to show their appreciation to the dealer by tipping them... then OK. If not... OK too.

Please feel free to respond to me at my office or my email: [email protected]

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[Mondogarage]

Brian, I think what JJHurt was saying was that APT dealers are now only working for tips, and not getting paid by APT. I don't think he was referring to DPT dealers in his post.

But if the venues are still paying APT to host the tourneys, and the APT isn't paying their dealers, where is the money going?

[Poker Goddess]

APT's two busiest venues don't have to pay - they're 'investors' into the company and all of their games and all of the tournaments held there are done for free. Makes it hard to make a profit that way, and these two venues combined are by no means the majority of investments that have to be paid off.

What money they do make off of the tables, which is very little at this point, I'm sure is barely keeping the electricity on, let alone paying the thousands upon thousands that they owe in back pay to dealers and sales staff.

I'm curious to see what the 'enhanced' prizes will be in their postponed tournament. Perhaps a certificate for their marketing services?

Count me out.

I think they've raped both their players and their employees, and shame on them for not stepping up and being men about the whole thing.

Lori Meyer
Poker Goddess

[JJHurt]

Brian,

Thanks for your response. My friend and I played Splitz last night and Kaiser was the head dealer. I may be mistaken but I was 2 positions from under the gun when I sat down. By the time I was BB we were on break and the blinds were 50 - 100. That may have been 15 minutes but it sure seemed quicker.

I understand how and why you run DPT your way. It's your company and reputation. I am a little burned by APT right now so I apologize if I appeared to be complaining. I was merely pointing out my preference.

I know that DPT does not have nor promote Self Deal. I was stating APT's flawed attempt at cutting costs. My comment went to the previous point that there were dealers that were playing cards. I again do not know DPT that well but at least one player made it clear that he is also a dealer. It went to my frustration as to the wait. As I said I will just ensure that in future I am on the list earlier. Not a problem, I was just unfamiliar with your policies.

As to tipping NO-ONE solicited TIPS, your dealers were professional and friendly. I always tip out of thanks and as a courtesy. You don't have to put the games on and the dealers don't have to be there. I therefore do encourage others to tip.

Thank you for your time.

JJHurt

[ak77451]

Brian,

Thanks for your response. My friend and I played Splitz last night and Kaiser was the head dealer. I may be mistaken but I was 2 positions from under the gun when I sat down. By the time I was BB we were on break and the blinds were 50 - 100. That may have been 15 minutes but it sure seemed quicker.

I understand how and why you run DPT your way. It's your company and reputation. I am a little burned by APT right now so I apologize if I appeared to be complaining. I was merely pointing out my preference.

I know that DPT does not have nor promote Self Deal. I was stating APT's flawed attempt at cutting costs. My comment went to the previous point that there were dealers that were playing cards. I again do not know DPT that well but at least one player made it clear that he is also a dealer. It went to my frustration as to the wait. As I said I will just ensure that in future I am on the list earlier. Not a problem, I was just unfamiliar with your policies.

As to tipping NO-ONE solicited TIPS, your dealers were professional and friendly. I always tip out of thanks and as a courtesy. You don't have to put the games on and the dealers don't have to be there. I therefore do encourage others to tip.

Thank you for your time.

JJHurt

but did the dealer or the table assault you?

[FAT BASTURD]

It was told to me that APT has told both Zodiac and Deuces that if they dont start paying for the games they are going to pull the tables oh yea and now they also told Maddie and Sharon they had to start hiring their own dealers and pay them out of their pocket.

Why in the world would you pull tables from the biggest venues you have games at everyday oh yea because you didnt think things through it costs the company $$$$$$$$ to pay the dealers.

In the whole investment of Zodiac, APT also rented the lower half (the pit) for $2,500 a month

Also if you invested say $100,000 why oh why wouldn't you investigate the company instead oh taking Matt or Doc Andrews word for it come on what kinda bussiness person are you.

Now Deuces might be going out of business due to investing big dollars in someone elses company instead of her own.

Sorry for being blunt and stupid rumor information but good luck APT (what a Joke)

one day a son asked his father for a mickey mouse hat for easter and for his birthday he asked for mickey mouse gloves so Christmas has come and the father got his son the APT (whole mickey mouse outfit!)Amateur is so right

have a great day :donk: :donk:

[takeittothehouse]

JJ Hurt – It’s refreshing to see someone who has been spurned act maturely. I hope you find a tour that you like.

[JJHurt]

JJ Hurt – It’s refreshing to see someone who has been spurned act maturely. I hope you find a tour that you like.


Thanks Take..

I don't think bar poker needs me to be infantile. Due to my busyness I am only able to play on Monday nights. I live by the Westminster Mall and work in Boulder so I need a nice convenient place to play. I will keep looking. My friend and I will definitely try Splitz again.

If you know of any other places in the Arvada/Westminster area that are close enough for a comfortable trip. I would be interested in trying them out.

Thanks again.

[FAT BASTURD]

Well that all depends on what tour you want to play with one that gives prizes or one that jerks you around or self deal check the websites DPT APT Colorado sound and light Denver full house the list goes on and on

[dvrdave]

I have to laugh at some of the bitterness and hatred I read in this forum. Some people need to realize that because of what’s happened with them and APT they are in the great situations they are currently in. A great job with a reputable company and kind, generous boss… Owner of their own poker company… Instead all you hear is backstabbing and complaining. Grow up people – life is not all roses.

[takeittothehouse]

JJ

If you're looking for a smaller company you can try Aces & Eights which has a game Monday night at Time Out Sports on 88th and Wads. I have some friends that play with them and enjoy it (I personally am not a fan). Rarely do they have a wait. They usually run about 3 games a night and their big tourneys are for smaller prizes like gift certificates to a casino up the hill or some hot springs lodging. Nice local prizes and you usually play against 80ish people in the big tourneys.

[FAT BASTURD]

Dave its not bitterness on my part I just answered a question second off you have no room to talk I've seen some of your posts here and on APT'S forum when it was up and you were one of the worst

Have a nice day!:)

[dvrdave]

FAT BASTURD - I am not bitter in any way, and I never posted on APT’s forum (nice try though). Thanks for proving my point and just remember…it’s never too late to go back to high school.

You have a great day as well. :)

[FAT BASTURD]

Sorry but yes you have but I dont care either way

[Poker Goddess]

dvrdave,

You have a good point. I don't though ever consider the truth, or possibly keeping someone from losing their life savings because they've been exposed to the truth, backstabbing. When ALL of the truth comes out - I'm sure it'll be back on the news and in the papers and won't be considered backstabbing or complaining at all, but the general thought will be more along the lines of "how did they think they would get away with that?!"

I agree though - both myself and Chad are in far better places now, as are most of APT's former staff. And I can only speak for myself - but I am truly grateful for that!

Lori Meyer
Poker Goddess

[dvrdave]

Lori Meyer
Poker Goddess,

We all understand that you don’t like APT. I'm sure all the investors that come here for investment advice are extremely appreciative of the money you personally have saved them. You are very vocal about your feelings that they put you in a horribly uncomfortable and illegal situation. Everyone here who has read your posts knows all this. We understand. We may even empathize. Can you please now grow up and focus on contributing some worthwhile information in your postings? Have you learned to play poker yet? Where do you like to play? What’s good about the company you now work for? Not everything has to be so negative and gossipy.

Dave

[Poker Goddess]

Dave,

I didn't start this thread, which has 28 replies, none of which have to do with playing poker.

Do you have a problem with me personally? If so please feel free to write to me personally about it.

I thought this was a forum about all things poker; (including poker companies) not one about personal attacks on posters.

Like I said in my previous post, you had good point.

And yes, I have learned how to play poker. I seem to do best with a 2-4 hand for some reason, and the river always seals the win of the hand for me. Go figure.

Lori Meyer
Poker Goddess