Poker Tour Raid

[DenverPokerTour]

Well apparently the VIP cards that they are selling are illegal. People have called me today to inform me the APT was raided yesterday by Colorado Bureau of Investigation and the Department of Gaming.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[PoWdA]

I knew those things were totally illegal. Any more details? You should post them if you get them, I will post if I get them.

[jayhawk525]

Well I was just on the APT forum and the question you asked has been deleted. So I think that it is safe to say that since they have not responded, just deleted, it must be true. I would think that they would be coming out and saying that it isn't true if it wasn't.

[PoWdA]

Well I was just on the APT forum and the question you asked has been deleted. So I think that it is safe to say that since they have not responded, just deleted, it must be true. I would think that they would be coming out and saying that it isn't true if it wasn't. Wow... I can't believe they would delete that thread.

[pseudoswede]

Well, they also shut down the forum.

Probably to mitigate the angry mobs that bought VIP memberships.

[jayhawk525]

This is why I joined Denverpoker.com so that I can meet other people that play poker. I am just learning how to play and I have played in several local tourneys. Some of them I liked and some I don't like. Now if I can get my money back for the membership, I will be a lot happier.

[ak77451]

Crap now Im going to have to worry about rouge dealers on other tours

[loomisdl]

Crap now Im going to have to worry about rouge dealers on other tours

Wear protective eyewear as well. Those chips can fly right up and take your eye out.

[TJ]

VIP Gold Club
We are currently reviewing our VIP Gold membership program, and the associated member benefits.

Please check back for updates, as we continue to look for new ways to bring you the best free poker playing experience available.



HA! Dumbasses!

[PoWdA]

Thier forum is still shut down. Honestly it wouldn't be that wierd if it hadn't happened 20 minutes after I started a thread asking what happened.

I was at one of thier tournies tonight and nothing out of the ordinary. Gold members sat first as usual and busted out early as usual. I honestly never understood the idea of paying to play "free" poker as that money could actually turn into something up the hill or online but whatever. I couldn't think of a worse -EV situation but to each thier own.

[PoWdA]

Wear protective eyewear as well. Those chips can fly right up and take your eye out. These things really do happen.



seriously.


people lose eyes. ;)

[loomisdl]

These things really do happen.



seriously.


people lose eyes. ;)

:)

nah, it's an urban myth.... :)

[ak77451]

What about getting crushed under a faulty table?

[DenverPokerTour]

I find it amusing, the same thing that got them in trouble, they are still doing. Really Amateur all right!


Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

PS. If you get a chance, talk to their dealers. They seem to be a little disgruntled about their situation. Some of them have actually filled out applications with our company yesterday.

[DenverPokerTour]

Sorry it double posted.

[jayhawk525]

I have done some research and I have found out that the owners of APT have owned other poker tours in Colorado and they never paid out any of their prizes, and then skipped town. I do not think that I will ever deal with those kind of poker tour owners again.

[TJ]

What did you find out in your research? What companies did they run?

[Bruno]

Some random thoughts as I slowly wake up from yesterday's/last nights's Gilpin's Wacky Wednesday (3rd in the 7:00 $70 tourney, didn't get home 'til 3:00):

I'm not surprised Brian is the first one to post that they got raided. Or that he was posting on their forum. I was pretty sure that a couple of the posts I read on their forum were his.

Checked their website and their Forum IS down. "Our Forum is currently in maintenance mode!" is the message on that webpage.

So, I called the APT this morning after I read this thread, got "Amber" (who told me she was the person they hired to have everything "go through"). She says "everything is fine". When I pressed her for details about the CGC "raid" she said "everything is ok". What about the memberships? "They're ok". She said that the CGC event happened on Monday, she thought. When pressed for details, she didn't have any. Why is the Forum down? "We didn't know it was. We had some problems earlier but thought they were fixed." I asked to speak to Matt Sowash, CFO. He wasn't in. She told me that "Andrew" would be calling me back. Fine. If he calls back, I'll post what I get back from him. A bit stunning to me that they wouldn't have a "canned" PR speach ready. Especially since several of the Gold Members must have called, or in case they got a call from a local paper.

The webpage for their Gold Memberships says: "We are currently reviewing our VIP Gold membership program, and the associated member benefits. Please check back for updates, as we continue to look for new ways to bring you the best free poker playing experience available." Which would lead one to believe that the CGC told them that it was a no-no. The "gold" memberships gave them a large influx of capital, probably used to help grow their business. If 200 people bought into it for $150 each, that's $30k!!! I never bought one, nor thougt the concept made sense from a player perspective. Most of the people who play the free tours have extreemly little experience playing poker, and wouldn't understand how bad the overlay is. Always sounded like an idea that wasn't a sound investment for me (lol).
Who knows if they got bad legal advice regarding the memberships, or went with out counsel.

Their Monthly tournament payouts were so top heavy (300+ people, paid only top three), and their blind structure so agressive (using Snyder's formulas from 'The Poker Tournament Formula' the tourney paitience factor was 3, and the skill level was 2) that the tourneys are complete luck/donfests. I offered them a better blind structure, always got the "we are open to suggestions", but they never implemented it. I always got the feeling it was a "it wasn't invented here" issue.

They've got their April Monthly tourney this Sunday at Zodiac (I'll be there), and I think that it'll be an interesting time, based upon the recent events. You would think that they would be working overtime to prepare themselves for the anxiety that their players will have. Good lessons abound from how businesses responded to crisis issues (see: Tylenol and Exxon for two). The biggest lesson is to respond quickly and forthright. One thing that comes up over and over is that you must "push" information out saying exactly what happened, take responsibility, show remorse for any negative affects, and descirbe in detail what you are doing about it. I did call a couple of the Gold members. None of them had heard of the issues, so certainly the APT isn't pushing info to them. I wonder what they would do if someone in the media called them about this? With poker being such an "it" item nowdays, it wouldn't surprise me if somebody got a hold of this and decided to do a story on it. It feels a bit to me, from the conversation with Amber, that they want to "hush-hush" this.

[Bruno]

I have done some research and I have found out that the owners of APT have owned other poker tours in Colorado and they never paid out any of their prizes, and then skipped town. I do not think that I will ever deal with those kind of poker tour owners again.

Jayhawk, please don't post non-sense like this without back-up data provided. Please state what tours, where, who didn't get paid, etc.

I know for a fact that the last three monthlies APT had everybody got paid: because I had 10% of one of the people who cashed and they paid me immediately from the cash the APT gave them immediately.

[TJ]

Jayhawk, please don't post non-sense like this without back-up data provided. Please state what tours, where, who didn't get paid, etc.

I know for a fact that the last three monthlies APT had everybody got paid: because I had 10% of one of the people who cashed and they paid me immediately from the cash the APT gave them immediately.


You staked someone 10% of their free poker buy in?

[jayhawk525]

Some of the managers and owners came from Bill L's poker tour. "All in Poker Series Poker". Bill didnt pay off all of the prizes there. Where's the SUV that was given away? There is no DMV record of Brenda Jones owning a Land Rover.

P.S. Did they at least acknowledge they were raided?

[Bruno]

You staked someone 10% of their free poker buy in?

Are you daft??? We swapped 10% of ourselves with each other. But, for the record, I'll gladly buy anyone into any free entry tournament for 10% of whatever they win. Good deal for both of us

[TJ]

If you read his post, the girl on the phone did acknowledge the raid happening Monday. How do you know that there is no DMV record of that lady with the Rover?

I've heard they never paid up that, and they were supposed to give away an S500 at a tourament about 6 months ago that never happened.

[TJ]

Are you daft??? We swapped 10% of ourselves with each other.


10% of what? It's a free game! You agreed to give someone 10% of your winnings and they reciprocated? If so, say that. Not that you had 10% of some guy, that implies you staked him. Are you daft?

[jayhawk525]

The DMV records fall under the Freedom of Information Act.

[Bruno]

10% of what? It's a free game! You agreed to give someone 10% of your winnings and they reciprocated? If so, say that. Not that you had 10% of some guy, that implies you staked him. Are you daft?

Yes, I am daft!!! How many times do we have to play together before you get that??? LOL

And I'm cranky from lack of sleep for the last three nights playing.

[TJ]

The DMV records fall under the Freedom of Information Act.


I'm aware. You took the time to go to the DMV, wait in line and request an MVR on Brenda Jones? That wouldn't tell you what sort of car a Brenda Jones would drive. You'd need the VIN number of the LR she won to run that check. You can't just go into a DMV office and say Hey, does Brenda Jones own a Land Rover?

Watch Gone in 60 Seconds again, and you'll see he took VIN numbers in, not names.

[DenverPokerTour]

Below is the CBI and CDG press release. it was forwarded to me from the Rocky Mountain News.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour


Records Seized at Wheat Ridge "Texas Hold 'Em" Operation
For Immediate Release
Contact: Lance Clem, CBI, 303-239-4415

As part of its continuing efforts to investigate illegal poker operations, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation this week searched the offices of Amateur Poker Tour, 9751 W. 44th Ave. in Wheat Ridge, and seized documents and records, according to Agent Ralph Gagliardi of the CBI Gaming Unit.

"An illegal poker operation is one in which players pay a fee to play," said Agent Gagliardi. Social poker games are legal, but when a host or organizer charges any kind of fee for participation, Colorado law defines the game as illegal.

Illegal poker games remain a long-term focus of CBI enforcement activity. The seizure of records from APT was a joint investigation involving the Colorado Division of Gaming and CBI.

[PoWdA]

Well they made the news.

http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=A7AE977841AC883A637472D721062F84 ?contentId=3042883&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Also I don't think it is good buisiness for them to have thier forum down at this time. Honestly they need to tell people something.

[ak77451]

Below is the CBI and CDG press release. it was forwarded to me from the Rocky Mountain News.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour


Records Seized at Wheat Ridge "Texas Hold 'Em" Operation
For Immediate Release
Contact: Lance Clem, CBI, 303-239-4415

As part of its continuing efforts to investigate illegal poker operations, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation this week searched the offices of Amateur Poker Tour, 9751 W. 44th Ave. in Wheat Ridge, and seized documents and records, according to Agent Ralph Gagliardi of the CBI Gaming Unit.

"An illegal poker operation is one in which players pay a fee to play," said Agent Gagliardi. Social poker games are legal, but when a host or organizer charges any kind of fee for participation, Colorado law defines the game as illegal.

Illegal poker games remain a long-term focus of CBI enforcement activity. The seizure of records from APT was a joint investigation involving the Colorado Division of Gaming and CBI.


I wonder if they are going to bust them for having rouge dealers too. Thank you for saving us from this scourge almighty DPT.

[takeittothehouse]

I was at a DPT monthly event a few months ago and Brian announced that the first person to donate $150 to charity (through Brian of course) would receive 10 VIP cards which they could hand out as they wish. The players could use these VIP cards to sit down first. Would this be the same thing?

[jayhawk525]

To get the information, you do not need the VIN # thanks to the internet. You can do the records search and never have to leave your house.

[Bruno]

Well they made the news.

http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=A7AE977841AC883A637472D721062F84 ?contentId=3042883&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Also I don't think it is good buisiness for them to have thier forum down at this time. Honestly they need to tell people something.

I sent them an email saying the same thing. I truly think they think if they just keep quiet it'll all go away. And maybe it will. Most of the people who play "free bar poker" are pretty naive and are probably wondering things like: "are the memberships legal?", "If not, will I be getting my money back?", "am I going to get arrested?", etc....

If we learned anything from Exxon and Tylenol: it's admit that somehting happened, taking responsibility, saying what you are going to do, etc., is key to surviving a PR mess like this. I talked to a couple of their "gold" members yesterday. Not one has heard a thing from them... They are acting very irresponsibly with what amounts to other peoples money.

[takeittothehouse]

Hey Jayhawk...

Can you please post a link to how you can do that? I looked on DMV's site and couldn't find anything and think it would be cool to look up a few things.

Thanks!

[DenverPokerTour]

At least I pay my Rogue dealers http://www.denverpoker.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif
Smile

I have a feeling this "Raid" is far from over.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[takeittothehouse]

I'm new here and see all this talk of rouge dealers... can someone please enlighten me?

[DenverPokerTour]

Rogue Dealers is a running joke.

Thank you for your concern in regards to the $150.00 that was donated to the Denver Dumb Friends League via myself. Actually it is legal. The players weren't given extra consideration, nor were they given access to any special tournaments exclusive to VIP members.
I have the receipts of the donation, and my matching contribution to prove it.

And the cards were 5, not 10.

Come by the office some time and I would be glad to show you personally.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[takeittothehouse]

Brian,

Are you always this defensive?

I asked a simple question as I'm fairly new to free bar poker and am trying to figure out what the big deal is about the gold membership. DPT has people that can sit first that paid for it (1 person or 1,000,000 people, they still paid for it) as does APT. I am not a gold member and I have never had to pay to play their tour.

You'd think you'd welcome competition as it gives you the chance to let the cream rise to the top and prove to players who has the best tour. From what I've read in here, you have NOTHING nice to say about any other tour and/or people who do not love DPT.

There are owners/dealers from tours in here that can say nice things about other tours (including yours), maybe you should take notes.

[DenverPokerTour]

I stated to you that you could come down to my office and I would show you the donation receipt AND the thank you letter from the DDFL. You haven't said you would come down. Why? Afraid I am right? Afraid of facing the truth?
My company is not the same as the APT. First example: My company has never been raided by the CDG or the CBI for violating state statutes on gaming, or any other reasons for that matter. Secondly, if our games look familiar... how about that a majority of APT's management staff were former dealers of ours. Amazing how the certificates look the same. Amazing how the tables look the same.
If you played in our games more, you would find multiple differences. But maybe you're content making anonymous comments on this site, instead of actually making these statements in public.

I wouldn't be surprised if you actually worked for APT.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[PoWdA]

Take your argument elsewhere please. Nobody cares. Thank you.



kind of an update.

Poker tour offices raided
By Mike McPhee
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 04/26/2007 03:59:02 PM MDT

Colorado gambling investigators raided the offices of an organized poker tour this week, confiscating records, membership lists and other documents of what they claim is an illegal amateur poker operation.

No arrests have been made in what investigators say is an ongoing investigation.

The search warrant targeted the offices of the Amateur Poker Tour in Wheat Ridge. Calls to the poker tour and its officers were not returned.

The tour, which is a registered Colorado corporation, according to investigators, conducts an average of 15 to 18 poker games nightly in various bars, taverns and night clubs around the metro area, from Evergreen to Fort Lupton.

Some of the venues listed on the website are Club Zodiac in Westminster, Deuces Poker Room in Thornton, Teddy T's in Aurora, The Pub on Pearl in Denver and others.

Each of the venues is required to pay the tour $300 each quarter as well as $50 per table per night to host the card games. All of this is legal, investigators said, and the venues try to recoup the fees from profits on the food and drink sales to the poker players.

Colorado Bureau of Investigation agent Ralph Gagliardi, who headed the investigation along with members of the state's Division of Gaming, said the Amateur Poker Tour has roughly 2,250 members.

Of those, about 250 are Gold Card members who pay an annual fee of $199 for the card, which entitles them to play in exclusive poker games twice a month with stakes of $10,000 or more.

It's that portion of the operation that investigators say is illegal.

Players who don't pay the fee cannot participate in the tournaments, Gagliardi said.

Gagliardi said poker is legal in Colorado as long as the players don't have to pay to join a game.

"There are a number of poker operators that are legitimate in the state," he said. "Players can join a game for free, and are given chips for free. At the end of a game, the winner can trade the chips in for prizes, including cash which might come from the operator.

"An illegal poker operation is one in which players pay a fee to play," said Gagliardi. "Social poker games are legal, but when a host or organizer charges any kind of fee for participation, Colorado law defines the game as illegal."

The Amateur Poker Tour's website, www.amseriespoker.com, stated that the Gold Card membership pages have recently been taken down with the notice: "We are currently reviewing our VIP Gold membership program."

[takeittothehouse]

Brian,

Thank you for the offer to come by personally and verify that you actually made the donation to DDFL and they thanked you for it. I will pass on the invitation as I have better things to do with my time.

Whether you made the donation or not is moot. Whether you took the tax deduction or passed it on to the donator is moot. It remains a fact that someone PAID for VIP cards to enable them (and their friends) privileged seating at your free poker events. And yes – a donation of cash is paying.

The games look familiar because it’s POKER. It’s no-limit Texas hold'em – the same poker as we see on TV all the time. The tables are different (VERY different). The starting blinds are different. The blind structure is different. The certificates are different.

I do not work for APT, and before this forum exchange I actually played with DPT more than any other tour. Time will tell if APT has done anything illegal (innocent until proven guilty I believe), but I will be enjoying their game (or The Poker Tour’s game) going forward.

Please feel free to respond to this so you can have the last word. Good luck with DPT your customer base that’s dropping one at a time.

[kraizevoodoo]

i just started looking for more bar tours and home games hence why i came here. it is not my dislike for DPT. in fact, i think it is great tour and like the rules and such. I heared about APT before which was refered as A-hole Poker Tour" but that was coming from dealer/player

this is all i'm going to say about this
Free poker is free poker don't expect much
pay poker is poker that people should get Paid for but you have Pay

Having some people pay and some people not for the same prizes is kinda retarded. but that IMO

[PoWdA]

Having some people pay and some people not for the same prizes is kinda retarded. but that IMO you left out "and the people who do pay are borderline retarded as well and should hit themselves in the head with a tack-hammer because that is a smarter choice to make."

[kraizevoodoo]

you left out "and the people who do pay are borderline retarded as well and should hit themselves in the head with a tack-hammer because that is a smarter choice to make."
True but people like that shouldn't be allowed to owned or operate any tools, sharp objects or paper objects and should be supervised at all times. because you see what they do with those green paper with death presidents on them.

[Bruno]

I stated to you that you could come down to my office and I would show you the donation receipt AND the thank you letter from the DDFL. You haven't said you would come down. Why? Afraid I am right? Afraid of facing the truth?
<snip>
I wouldn't be surprised if you actually worked for APT.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

Brian, are you doing something? Seriously, you have to be the most paranoid poster I've seen this side of Russ G on RGP. Do you have any idea how ignorant/stupid you look making posts like this? What the hell are you doing: challenging the guy to a fight?

It amazes me that you take these defensive stands, make derogatory remarks to people, and post this crap on this website when the business you have is a poker business. These offensive remarks you make toward people....incredible. If I were your PR guy I'd recommend that you never post anything without sleeping on it first. My god man, you've shown yourself to be a jerk.

As far as the APT goes, they are being investigated by the CBI and CGC. They haven't been found guilty of any violations yet. If they aren't fine. If they are, you can beat your chest even harder....

Sources close to the APT tell me that the CBI confiscated a computer and records. No charges filed as of yet. I never recieved a call back from them. As I've said before, they've no clue how to handle this from a PR standpoint.

Should be an interesting Sunday APT monthly, don't you think?

PS: I'm with Powda and krazievoodoo regarding the 250 people who paid $199 for the "gold" gig. Now If I could only get those 250 to take another $200 and come play in some of the local cash games.....

[ctswpt76]

Sources close to the APT tell me that the CBI confiscated a computer

No wonder their forum is down....... ;) lol

I have played in plenty free bar games, they all have their + and - but I take it for what it's worth......FREE....
Although last week when I had to wait 1.5 HOURS to get into a DPT game, when there was a ready table and dealer, made me a little mad...... :mad:

But com'on guys, this is getting pretty stupid. I laughed every time I saw the "Gold" members take their seats, acting like they were cool or something. In reality I was thinking how dumb they were to PAY for it........

This would all be a non issue if we could just get the laws changed to be similar to CA's. Poker = Skill so cut the gambling crap and open a Bay 101 in Denver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

:-D

Just my .02
cts

[loomisdl]

This would all be a non issue if we could just get the laws changed to be similar to CA's. Poker = Skill so cut the gambling crap and open a Bay 101 in Denver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

:-D

Just my .02
cts

Post of the year. Seriously, if the nut-jobs in CA can figure it out surely we can find out way to that logic, right?

[Brent_in_Aurora]

Aren't there enough Californians here already so that the card room laws can be changed? Also, what has happened to the indian gaming proposal out near the airport?

[pseudoswede]

Also, what has happened to the indian gaming proposal out near the airport?
The state laughed and said, "Yeah right." End of story.

[ak77451]

So I hear a certain someone made ave 100 calls to the CGC and the CBI? I guess if you cant beat them with good product, have Johnny Law take care of them

[Wetdog]

I laughed every time I saw the "Gold" members take their seats, acting like they were cool or something. In reality I was thinking how dumb they were to PAY for it........

This is what I find hilarious. Here's my impression of how these things start off at Sweetwater Station where I play. The goldies sit. Then names are called off the sign in sheet. They sit and a very short wait list is made. Lots of the goldies play like crap and are out quickly. The wait list is usually cleared within 10 minutes. This is because they always have enough tables and dealers to accomodate any size crowd they get. Following the breakdown of one of the tables, an Omaha game is started among the early bustouts with a certificate given for the monthly Omaha tournament.

I am almost always one of the non-gold-member players who get to sit immediately. That is what makes the gold membership one of the dumbest ideas. Like the DPT VIP system (Brian, I thought you got rid of the priority system a long time ago) card holders get priority, but what is that really worth? To me it's worth nothing if I can play within a reasonable period after the first deal. If I am told to wait for more than a half hour, I'm outta there. Free poker is not a scarce resource. There are other bar tours who delight in seeing the arrogant fall.

[tjholdem]

I'm with Powda and krazievoodoo regarding the 250 people who paid $199 for the "gold" gig. Now If I could only get those 250 to take another $200 and come play in some of the local cash games.....

Bruno my boy:

You would hav a field day with these guys..lol. This all seems a bit long winded. Did anyone ever consider that a competitor may have called in the CBI!?!?! Just a thought....hmmmmm!

TJ Holdem

[PoWdA]

Bruno my boy:

You would hav a field day with these guys..lol. This all seems a bit long winded. Did anyone ever consider that a competitor may have called in the CBI!?!?! Just a thought....hmmmmm!

TJ Holdem Yes I did and that is DEFINETLY a possibility but I am not one ot point fingers. It probobly did happen like that but I have no clue who did call in if this is the case.

[tjholdem]

This is what I find hilarious. ... The goldies sit. Then names are called off the sign in sheet. They sit and a very short wait list is made. Lots of the goldies play like crap and are out quickly.... within 10 minutes. ... Following the breakdown of one of the tables, an Omaha game is started among the early bustouts with a certificate given for the monthly Omaha tournament.

So, doggie, what you are saying is that you are playing a lot of Omaha these days....Right!?!!?

TJHoldem

[tjholdem]

Yes I did and that is DEFINETLY a possibility but I am not one ot point fingers. It probobly did happen like that but I have no clue who did call in if this is the case.


Gotta agree with ya...I think it is a DEFINATE possibility. Now....hmmmm.... Who would do such a thing to help take down this great game of Poker?

[PoWdA]

Gotta agree with ya...I think it is a DEFINATE possibility. Now....hmmmm.... Who would do such a thing to help take down this great game of Poker? Honestly one thing I will say is that if the APT does go down I definetly won't lose any sleep over it. They had no problem stealing bars out from under my company and taking food off of my plate so if they do end up going down it's no problem for me. They do run an allright game but honestly I could care less if this crippled thier buisiness.

[Wetdog]

So, doggie, what you are saying is that you are playing a lot of Omaha these days....Right!?!!?

TJHoldem

I couldn't play in the monthly game on 4-29 because I had to be in Grand Junction for a bowling tournament. So, I play the Omaha game which is sometimes the most frustrating thing. It's pot limit. Nonetheless there are still schmucks that want to go all-in pre-flop under the gun because they have 3 Kings in the hole.:badgrin:

[jayhawk525]

It could of been anyone that turned them in, how many poker companies are there in Colorado? How many of them have lost bars to APT? How many of their players have they lost to APT?

From what I know about the owner of DPT blaming him is only going to inflate his ego and I don't really think that is a good idea.

Besides, if they did cheat or break the law, then they should get nailed.

[dexman1349]

Besides, if they did cheat or break the law, then they should get nailed.


Agreed. Illegal is illegal. It doesn't matter who turned who in, if someone even narked at all. How do we know that the CBI or the gaming commision didn't have a guy go play one of the games themselves? This VIP card system was never hidden. Up until a couple weeks ago, I was still getting daily e-mails asking to purchase one (I never did).

I'm just curious as to how APT will end up handling this. I'll see a couple of friends this evening who bought the VIP cards and see if they know any new info.

[Wetdog]

One of the things they are doing about it, or rather not doing, is the gold member freeroll in Vegas this weekend. Since the money for the memberships was collected in Colorado, it would be a pay to play. Quite a few pizzed people because of that.

[PoWdA]

I just heard that the players who have arrived in Vegas are now sitting in the Binions lobby without rooms! Appearently no rooms were booked and we will see if the tourney is even going to happen.

WOW!!!!

[pseudoswede]

I just heard that the players who have arrived in Vegas are now sitting in the Binions lobby without rooms! Appearently no rooms were booked and we will see if the tourney is even going to happen.

WOW!!!!
Now that's just silly. Before I drove one mile (towards Vegas or towards DIA), I would be confirming with the organizers and/or the hotel that everything was kosher.

If the organizers were suddenly MIA, I would be going straight to small claims court.

[PoWdA]

Now that's just silly. Before I drove one mile (towards Vegas or towards DIA), I would be confirming with the organizers and/or the hotel that everything was kosher.

If the organizers were suddenly MIA, I would be going straight to small claims court.

Yeah this comes from a reliable source who says he spoke with a person who was sitting there stranded in the binions lobby. If I hear anyhting else I will post it.

[Bruno]

I talked by phone with a good friend who is part of that group last night. It took them 5 hours to get booked into the hotel. Instead of just checking in, they had to put up their own credit cards (remember, they already paid the APT for this gig), because there was an issue with the Casino taking the APTs check. He said the APT will back-end them their money when the trip is over. That's a scarry thought. My buddy also told me that there is no Gold Memeber tourney (ostensibly because of the "pay to play" issues), the APT Intenational tourney was cancelled and that all the people they brought out there are "on their own". I called Binions after talking to my buddy, had a chat with Ethan, the Poker Tournament Director, who told me that the Nevada Gaming Commision agreed with the Colorado Gaming Commision and told Binions that the APT could not have a tournament there. No special tournaments for APT people. No acknowledgment of the APT or its players. My buddy tells me that there is "a lot of pissed off people" out there now.

If they thought the PR from the raid was bad, wait til they get back to the storm they are gonna have from this.

I'm stunned that these azz hats would continue through with this without having all their details worked out. They didn't know that the Nevada Gaming comission was gonna do this? They didn't know that there were issues with the hotel?? Who in the hell was in charge of this event??? I can't imagine NOT firing the CEO of the company!!! It was pretty obvious that they had a pretty good sales team, as they kept getting into addition venues, but they obviously can't manage operationally. They bungled the PR of the raid, they could never keep anything updated (VIP lists, GoldMemebership points lists, etc.), they couldn't get their dealers on the same page, ran their monthlys poorly, etc. It's unfathomable to me that they took these people out there and had this dissaster. They didn't have anyone with professional project management, program management, or event planning experience managing this event????

[ctswpt76]

Wow, now I am *glad* I got 2nd place for a Vegas trip back in Feb.........
I hope the lady who runner-runner'd me made it ok.

:)
cts

[PoWdA]

This is very very bad for them.

I think one of the biggest mistakes these guys made and continue to make is pretty much refusing to let anyone know what is happening. Honestly if they so much as put a paragraph on thier website explaining the situation then there would be less rumors and more fact floating around. Closing the forums was a stupid idea as that would have been a great way to inform people on what is happening other than simply telling the dealers to tell everyone "it's okay." Horrible public relations by these guys and this last little issue should sink this tour if any of the people who play it know what is good for them.

[leifabe]

I have friends that work for them and I feel bad for them, but the APT seems to go about doing things without properly researching the legality of it. They have advertised a college tour and list colleges in CA like USC and UCLA--even though free bar poker is illegal in CA.

I work for the DPT and I can't say that I'm disappointed by the fallout for the APT. It will be interesting to see what happens when they all get back. I think that a lot of bars will be up for grabs.

[TJ]

I talked to a dealer for APT Wednesday( a recent defect from Colo Poker People). His take was that any publicity is good publicity. Herein, not the case. Being raided by state investigators and the story hitting the press is not good for any company. Then, all this hoopla with the Vegas trip. I can't imagine any of those people going back to APT. For the company to not tell people the whole event has been cancelled is a joke, and to say they'll reimburse them for travel expenses is idiotic. Hopefully those that went out there aren't suckers enough to believe that.

For all the APT loyals that continually bash the way Masters does things, answer me this. Has this ever been an issue for DPT?

DPT has never been in the news for any negative operations. The backlash from this will be hell for APT, but hey... If the shoe fits!

[DenverPokerTour]

Apparently there are lots of ticked off players. I have been receiving e-mails and phone calls since I got in this morning. NO VIP tournament, NO International Tournament, no lodging... and no answers to their questions.
If you look at the website, they have taken down all references to their website to this tournament event.
I was informed several days ago, (Tuesday) that this tournament would not be allowed to happen. Why were the players not informed of this? How could you let your players get on the bus going to Las Vegas and not tell them? How could you sit there for 10 - 12 hours on the bus with them and not tell them?
I was informed by Binion's on Tuesday that this game would not happen. In my opinion this is a CRIMINAL act. Not just a gambling issue. You lied to your players and allowed this to happen.
According to a phone call I made to Binion's today, they are not even letting the players wear any APT clothing or hats. They have completely removed all material regarding APT from their casino. They have threatened to kick out any person wearing APT apparel out of their casino.
I may be a jerk, I may be arrogant, I may offend you with my playing style... but I couldn't even fathom the idea of doing what they have done. This is a risky business... unfortunately anyone can start a poker tour in Colorado. We have seen many companies come and go, but this by far is inexcusable.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[jayhawk525]

Well I guess we know who everyone will be mad at for a long time for ripping them off.
I wouldnt expect to hear anyone defending them anymore.

[pseudoswede]

DPT has never been in the news for any negative operations.

Well, they did get slapped on the wrist by the CGC a few times, but that was when they were starting out.

[pseudoswede]

A friend's friend was also part of this APL group in Vegas. He and a few other pissed-off APL'ers are currently tooling around in Vegas in a Hummer stretch limo in APL's dime right now.

Supposedly, APL is setting up a $400 buy-in tourney for the players. Probably not at Binion's, but somewhere else in downtown.

[PoWdA]

Hopefully those that went out there aren't suckers enough to believe that.
HA!

When was the last time you paid to play in a free poker tournament?

[TJ]

HA!

When was the last time you paid to play in a free poker tournament?


Never. I am not a moron.

[PoWdA]

HA!

When was the last time you paid to play in a free poker tournament? lol... A powda drunk post. I don't even remember posting this. Awesome.

[Bruno]

A friend's friend was also part of this APL group in Vegas. He and a few other pissed-off APL'ers are currently tooling around in Vegas in a Hummer stretch limo in APL's dime right now.

Supposedly, APL is setting up a $400 buy-in tourney for the players. Probably not at Binion's, but somewhere else in downtown.

Well as for the first part, that's a pretty nice perk. Good for them for getting something out of it. Hopefully the people that went will make the best of this situation. From great adversity comes great friendships. As for the second part, didn't most of them already pay for a $500 tourney: the 'International' or something? Didn't they have a sales webpage where they did e-commerce and people could pay for it ahead of time? Am I wrong about that? If I am somebody correct me on it. If I'm right, and they hold that tourney, wouldn't that be a set of tilted people....LOL....

I was thinking this morning about what the hell they are gonna publish in their monthly magazine {not to be nitty but, my favorite poker "advice" in their mag was an article where the columnist actually told some one to "PLAY BETTER POKER"...in capital letters!...I am not making this up!!!}...I mean, wouldn't you think the top two stories associated with the APT, that would be of interest to the APT players, would be "the raid" and "the Vegas 'fiasco' " ??? What the hell could they write about the Vegas deal? Assuming that they publish another edition...

What I've been wondering is, if they were told by council or CBI to not have any press releases. TJ? Could something like that happen? Could the CBI or their attorneys tell them to keep quiet? But if that happened, wouldn't they have at least sent out a release or something that said they would "have no comment" until "further notice"?

That would explain not saying anything about "the raid". But it doesn't explain not knowing about what was going to happen in Vegas. And it doesn't explain having whatever has happened (at least a mess, at most lawsuits?), happen. Wouldn't it be a trip to be on the chartered flight home?

I got an email on Friday evening from the APT regarding their weekend limited schedule, asking me to come out and play. It contained this gem "We appreciate each and every one of our players support - and promise to continue to bring you completely free poker, exciting prizes, great opportunities to advance to higher levels of play, and a better and better poker experience for years and years to come!"

I thout it was a bit curious that there was anybody that had anything to do with the APT management team, that wasnt' doing everything they could to make the experience the APT players in Vegas were having "better"...so I sent them an email asking them something like that. No ans yet... It's their business...


lol... A powda drunk post. I don't even remember posting this. Awesome.
LOL PoWdA, LOL

[jayhawk525]

Who knows why they haven't released anything. Maybe the lawyers they have are telling them to stay quiet, but if these are the same lawyers that told them that it was legal for them to sell gold cards, I wouldn't trust them.
I have heard some of the people from APT are saying that they are getting free publicity and they like that. If that is the attitude that they have then that should explain a lot.
I have also heard that the APT management is telling everyone that they will get them their money back as soon as they get back to Colorado. I wouldnt trust that, if it was my money, then I would get together with all of the other players and file a class action suit against them and take them to court.

I know, it is just my opnion, and it doesnt mean anything, but I thought I would post it.

[Wetdog]

From the website http://www.amateurpokerstars.com/

Press Release http://www.amateurpokerstars.com/assets/Star-GoldFlashing.gif
CBI Investigation
& International Tournament Great news!!! The recent investigation by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation related to the operations of The Amateur Poker Tour has been closed. The result: The Amateur Poker Tour made some changes to its VIP Gold membership program and absolutely NO charges were filed and NO fines imposed.
While The International Tournament originally scheduled to be held at Binion’s casino in Las Vegas form May 4th – 7th, 2007 had to be cancelled, The Amateur Poker Tour is currently working to reschedule this event in July. The exact Las Vegas location for this event will be announced as soon as possible.
The Amateur Poker Tour would like to extend its apologies to Dicken’s Energy Cider, The Graphic Edge, Specialty Incentives and all the players that were looking forward to playing in the tournament scheduled for May 4th – 7th in Las Vegas. The Amateur Poker Tour worked around the clock in an attempt to have the tournament go on as scheduled and was officially informed of the cancellation just 1 day prior to the tournament’s scheduled start. Had The Amateur Poker Tour known earlier of the tournament’s official cancellation, appropriate notices would have been provided to all involved.
The Amateur Poker Tour continues to operate as the best and most fun FREE poker tour. No interruptions in The Amateur Poker Tour’s daily operations have occurred. The show continues to go on and will only get bigger and better! Make sure to watch out for new details of the tournament to be held in Las Vegas in July.

Sincerely,
The Amateur Poker Tour

=================================================

fwiw

[jayhawk525]

Funny how they said that they only had a one days notice and couldnt notify the players. They collected money from players, how do you not have contact information to notify the players? Binions was telling people that called last Tuesday that there was no tournement for APT, but they only had one day?
I will wait until I see it in the paper or on the news before I believe anything that comes off the APT website.

[Bruno]

Binions was telling people that called last Tuesday that there was no tournement for APT, but they only had one day?

This is why I think they must not have good management or an effective management structure. Cause there is no way that in the days leading up to an event of this magnitude for them, that their person who is responsible for the event isn't in CONSTANT contact with his/her contacts on the other side. No way that he/she wouldn't be talking with the Poker Tournament Director they had at Binion's. I've done some small event management before, and as you approach the start date of the event, you are talking to the other side every day! A lot every day!!! Oh well, old project management days....

Hey Brian! Did the CBI and CGC dismiss all charges?

And who writes their PRs for them. Terrible. So many things wrong with it on so many levels. Absolutely no admitance of culpability on their part and a "Move along, nothing to see here" Officer Barbrady statement.....sad....

[DenverPokerTour]

No, they haven't dismissed the charges, Case is not closed, etc, etc. Now before anyone wants to start ripping on me on how I know this. I called and asked. Just like anyone else could have done.
On a related note however, hey APT are you going to give the money back for the VIP cards and the Las Vegas Trip winners? Or do you plan on keeping the money and maybe pay off the debts you have floating around town?
It is amazing that they would send out their own press release, and still get the facts wrong.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[Crazy Iraqi]

I have to say it does seem a little quick to drop all of the charges.

[DenverPokerTour]

Some of their players came into my office today and complained about the way they were told about the cancellation of the tournaments in Las Vegas. Their story was that AFTER the plane had left DIA on the way to Las Vegas, a dealer stood up and said he just received a phone call informing him that the tournament in Las Vegas was canceled. Apparently players moaned and groaned about it.

My question: Why did he have the phone on? Isn't this a FAA violation? lol

I think it is such a shame that they didn't tell their dealers about the decision to cancel the games even though they freely admit they knew 24 hours in advance that it was canceled. Wow, can you imagine being a dealer and having to deal with angry and frustrated players for something your employer did? or maybe they did know, and were told to keep quiet. The players who came into my office today said that had they known about the cancellations they wouldn't have gotten on the plane.

Its' ok really though, I heard from these players today, that the APT promised to refund everyone their money, (you know which money, the money people had to pay again for their already pre-paid hotel rooms), but I have faith in them. I mean, since they collected all the money from the players in the first place, then they surely have the money to return to everyone... right?

And since they are no longer offering their VIP program... they are going to refund the $199 per card to the players right? Or is the T-Shirt and Sunglasses worth more than I thought?

And what about the $175,000 GUARANTEED tournament they were supposed to have? What about all the PRIZE TRIPS that were awarded to players. You know the prize, the one where you received airfare, hotel, and the $550.00 buy in... How are you going to compensate the players for that?

7 Years ago I was involved in a raffle contest. We failed to print "Must be present to win" on the tickets. Well, on the day of the raffle they pulled out a name, and the person wasn't in attendance. So they drew another one, and awarded that person the prize. Well long story short, we were sued. We lost and had to pay off TWO prizes. Each price was worth $1200.00. We paid off the person who won the second drawing, AND had to pay off the original winner as well. Because we promised to give away the prize. The judge ruled otherwise, it would be false advertising.

Something to think about?

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[ak77451]

My question: Why did he have the phone on? Isn't this a FAA violation? lol

Because they were awaiting instructions from thier handlers to start beating the people on the plane up. Please save us DPT