Some advice?

[nrkofover]

I tried posting this in the 'bar poker' forum and it wouldn't let me, so I'm trying here, :).

I'm working for a free poker company in Colorado Springs, marketing, graphic design and occassionally dealing. I have some ideas about marketing and the game and hoped for some input. This is a new company and they currently have 13 games weekly, the basis is similar to other companies, you earn points with a top five finish. Top 11 point getters over eight weeks make the finals. All other point getters play a semi with top 11 from those games making the finals.

Because they don't have a lot of capital, many of the promotions I come up with involve point bonuses. First, I wondered about giving a point bonus for running a $20 bar tab at any location. Some worried about legal issues, paying to play kind of thing. I really don't know if this crosses the line. Second, this week we're running a new player promotion, anyone who brings in any new player gets a point bonus for each player and any new player automatically receives points. Some people have complained it's unfair that they play night after night and someone with 10 friends picks up points for nothing. I counter that it's a business and we need new poker players.

And finally, last night I dealt a game and the owner of the establishment and I discussed the possibility of an 'invite only' game for quality card players involved in the league. He's tired of donks and would like to have us handpick 22 quality players for a private game which would still award points but rather than bar tabs, there would be cash prizes. These players would be different week to week. Some people in the company expressed concern about leaving players out of the possibility for prizes and points at this location. My solution is to run it simultaneously with another game, that way if you don't get the invite, you still have an option to play. As well, encouraging quality play is a good thing in my mind, giving people something to reach for, the invite, should be ultimately positive.

Any suggestions, comments, ideas?

Thanks!

[pseudoswede]

First, I wondered about giving a point bonus for running a $20 bar tab at any location. Some worried about legal issues, paying to play kind of thing. I really don't know if this crosses the line.
I would guess this is a no-no. Perhaps you need to consult with the Gaming Gestapo?

Second, this week we're running a new player promotion, anyone who brings in any new player gets a point bonus for each player and any new player automatically receives points. Some people have complained it's unfair that they play night after night and someone with 10 friends picks up points for nothing. I counter that it's a business and we need new poker players.

What's to stop someone from bringing random people and having them write down fake names each time they play so that one person gets the points? Otherwise, I think that's a pretty cool idea. Bars want more people, which is why they book poker tourneys in the first place; you reward people who bring other people, and it's a win-win situation.

And finally, last night I dealt a game and the owner of the establishment and I discussed the possibility of an 'invite only' game for quality card players involved in the league. He's tired of donks and would like to have us handpick 22 quality players for a private game which would still award points but rather than bar tabs, there would be cash prizes. These players would be different week to week. Some people in the company expressed concern about leaving players out of the possibility for prizes and points at this location. My solution is to run it simultaneously with another game, that way if you don't get the invite, you still have an option to play. As well, encouraging quality play is a good thing in my mind, giving people something to reach for, the invite, should be ultimately positive.

Invite-only tourneys are risky. Would you invite the guy who you notice is a real solid player (say, ranked #35 in points)--he's often knocked out only because of lucky suckouts on the turn/river, shows up right before the tourney starts and leaves immediately afterwards, and only drinks soda? Or the guy who is just an okay player (ranked #15 in points), who often makes it into the points because of lucky suckouts with questionable cards as often as he does because he gets good cards dealt to him, shows up right after work to start pounding beers, hangs around after the tourney, and has been seen paying $50 bar tabs after every tourney?

In either situation, either player might be offended if they aren't invited to an exclusive tourney of "high-caliber players." If the first guy gets offended and goes elsewhere, your poker tour just lost a solid player. If the second guy gets offended and goes elsewhere, you just lost a high-revenue customer for the bar.

Having it run simultaneously with the regular tournament may also not be the best idea.

Player: Hey, why can't I sit at those tables?
Dealer: Oh, those are for an invite-only tourney. You win cash instead of a bar tab.
Player: Really, how do I get invited to that?
Dealer: Stop playing like a idiot.
Player: But they were soooooooooooooted! :D

[Wetdog]

I'm curious how you arrive at units of 22. You must have some huge tables. Either that or the league is owned by X22.;)

A local restaurant who runs their own game gives additional chips for each drink ordered. I think there's some legal exposure there, i.e. encouraging overindulgence to people who will be driving home. I think your point bonus raises the same concern.

You might want to consider double points for some games to encourage turnout among your core group, but that may cannibalize other games you are running at the same time. Bonus points for bringing a friend is a good idea too. A bonus code in the signup form for the new players could be used, such as the referring player's player number.

I'm not sure how the other players would accept the special tournament for the "elite" 22. It would probably cause resentment and you could lose some players because of it. Your client establishment is the ultimate boss though. Maybe you could make it a weekly thing for the top point earners of the previous week.

HTH Good luck.

[nrkofover]

Thanks guys.

We seat 11 at a table, so 22 is workable.m :) and is x22 the guy who chews on his tongue? He scares me.

We've actually thought about additional chips for purchases and kinda figured that crossed the line. We also thought about giving extra chips to anyone who shows up 15 minutes before start time or earlier and making them ask a bartender for their extra chips, that way they might be more inclined to make a purchase. It is difficult to encourage people to spend money and not cross the legal line with poker. I guess the bar tab idea isn't such a good one.

The new person element has been going well in two days. Some people mentioned the possibility of 'gaming' the promotion but we haven't seen it yet. I've made it a point to be at every game and will continue this week and I never forget a face, :). The promotion has brought in 16 new players in four games and for me that's a success already.

Fortunately we've had a lot of discussions regarding invite only and I think it needs to be restructured in some way to avoid many of the problems brought up here. I was thinking about a points buy-in tournament, meaning any player that has won points can come play a 'private' game with an opportunity to win a ton of points but they will forfeit their already earned points for the buy-in. I thought this idea might be cool because it really gives a cash poker mentality for the players. Risk and reward, bankroll management, the importance of cashing if your risking, etc.. Our new session starts in April and I'm going to try this concept out in some form. The only real issue for me is more paperwork.

But again, thanks for the input, when I was brought on board with this company I explained to them that the hardest thing about running free poker is dual obligations. In this business you have to make the player and the establishment happy and that's difficult and often contradictory and I find getting voices from many different elements is the best way to work out new ideas, so I appreciate the comments.

[DenverPokerTour]

Additional chips for drink/food purchases is illegal.
Invite only games piss people off.
Everyone must start at the same level, and have the same chance at wining... or its' illegal.

You really should contact Colorado Liquor Tobacco Enforcement. It sounds to me like you haven't gotten all the information that you need.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[nrkofover]

Thanks Brian, since I'm really just on the marketing side I leave final judgment for my ideas, both legal and economic, up to the owners of the company and the owners of the clubs that hire them. It is fundamentally their responsibility to insure legal behavior and fill me in on the approaches we can or can't take with respect to promotions. Most club owners are very concerned with legal issues and take few chances when it comes to their liquor licenses and livelihood.

The invite only game has been effectively squashed after talking to many players. The nightclub has it's desires and I respect that I want to meet their needs but it just won't fly within the league structure. I told the bar owner to have a private game not affiliated with the league that is invite only with him providing all the prizes and that would avoid the issues the other players have. I'm not sure he'll go with that, but we'll see. The poker company would merely provide tables and dealers for this game (as they already do for private home games and charitable events).

Again thanks for your input, you've been doing this for a very long time so your comments are greatly respected.