Bruno
02-19-2007, 04:02 PM
It's midway through a tournament, still 1/2 the field to go before the money. Some small stack goes all-in in EP, and gets four callers. Flop is checked around. Somebody bets the Turn, and almost immediately the "why are you betting a 'dry side pot' " comments come out....And if all others fold and the player who bet at the pot doesn't have the absolute nuts or near it, several players start in on the player who bet, telling him how stupid it is to bet a dry pot....
Frankly, these players show an ignorance to tournament strategy, and can be taken advantage of in these situations. These players think they know the correct way to play this type of situation and, in reality, are wrong. There are several valid reasons that someone might bet at the pot in the above example. And there are several un-valid reasons that someone should bet at it.
Now, I'm not talking about being near the bubble or "ladder climbing" (checking it down/ganging up on a player so all remaining players can move up one more place in the payoff structure). And there are rare situations very late in a tourney where you might rather the all-in player have the chips then have any chance of another player having the chips (you think the all-in player is a weaker player, etc.). Those are completely different circumstances that entail a different reasoning due to the complications of the situations. Clearly, being at the bubble with four people in the hand and betting at a pot when someone is all in and all you have is Ace high, isn't the smartest thing to do. You could push out the eventual winner, lose the hand to the all-in player, and still be at the bubble. At this point, every player in the tournament would be justified in bawling you out for making that play. In that situation, it's a bonehead thing to do. You are taking a chance at costing them and you money...
But I'm not discussing the "bubble", "ladder climb", or late tourney situations. I'm talking about before those situations, say early to middle tourney. Where your goal is to acquire chips; to build a stack so you can advance deep into the tourney. I've heard people say "I never bet a dry pot, no matter what!", like this is some sort of badge of higher poker intelligence. I will tell those people right here and now that it is a badge of poker UN-INTELLIGENCE!!!
There are many reasons to bet at the pot with an all-in player in the early/middle stages of a tourney. The best reasons to bet at it are that you have a hand and want to start a side pot, you think you are ahead of the all-in player and the other players will fold if you bet, and you have a hand but it's vulnerable, and you want to charge anyone who might have a draw.
In most circumstances it's somewhat ignorant to bet your draw, though. Example: there was one all-in preflop and you were one of three callers. Let's say you have 9s8s and the flop comes 10c7d2h. You have an open-ended straight draw on the flop. With the range of hands you put the All-in player on, you know that your 98 isn't good now, and that you'll need to hit a J or a 6 to beat him. Unless you are trying to start a side pot with your draw (for whatever reasons you have: knowing someone will call and disguising your hand for later bluffing to acquire the side pot, etc.) and are sure they will call, this is a bad bet because if you chase the others out, you will have added no equity to the pot. And if you chase them out and hit, you have wasted a good opportunity to possibly make additional side pot equity. But if you had AQ and all checked to you, and with the range of hands the all-in might have you think you are ahead, why would you check again and let the other people in the hand catch up? Why wouldn't you want to take a stab at the pot and define the others hands?
Simply put, this topic goes directly to tournament strategy. Your goal in the early/middle stages of a tourney is to acquire chips. NOT to eliminate people. Surely, you want people to be eliminated. But, more importantly to you is the acquisition of chips. You need to build your stack. Late stages of a tournament require a different strategy. Every time I hear someone say "I won't bet at a dry side pot" I think "thanks, I appreciate you allowing me to complete my hand" and I also think "hmmm....I guess you won't call unless you have something either?"..... It’s telling someone exactly how you are going to play a specific situation every time, and when the other players know that you will always do the same thing you set yourself up for being exploited.
Frankly, these players show an ignorance to tournament strategy, and can be taken advantage of in these situations. These players think they know the correct way to play this type of situation and, in reality, are wrong. There are several valid reasons that someone might bet at the pot in the above example. And there are several un-valid reasons that someone should bet at it.
Now, I'm not talking about being near the bubble or "ladder climbing" (checking it down/ganging up on a player so all remaining players can move up one more place in the payoff structure). And there are rare situations very late in a tourney where you might rather the all-in player have the chips then have any chance of another player having the chips (you think the all-in player is a weaker player, etc.). Those are completely different circumstances that entail a different reasoning due to the complications of the situations. Clearly, being at the bubble with four people in the hand and betting at a pot when someone is all in and all you have is Ace high, isn't the smartest thing to do. You could push out the eventual winner, lose the hand to the all-in player, and still be at the bubble. At this point, every player in the tournament would be justified in bawling you out for making that play. In that situation, it's a bonehead thing to do. You are taking a chance at costing them and you money...
But I'm not discussing the "bubble", "ladder climb", or late tourney situations. I'm talking about before those situations, say early to middle tourney. Where your goal is to acquire chips; to build a stack so you can advance deep into the tourney. I've heard people say "I never bet a dry pot, no matter what!", like this is some sort of badge of higher poker intelligence. I will tell those people right here and now that it is a badge of poker UN-INTELLIGENCE!!!
There are many reasons to bet at the pot with an all-in player in the early/middle stages of a tourney. The best reasons to bet at it are that you have a hand and want to start a side pot, you think you are ahead of the all-in player and the other players will fold if you bet, and you have a hand but it's vulnerable, and you want to charge anyone who might have a draw.
In most circumstances it's somewhat ignorant to bet your draw, though. Example: there was one all-in preflop and you were one of three callers. Let's say you have 9s8s and the flop comes 10c7d2h. You have an open-ended straight draw on the flop. With the range of hands you put the All-in player on, you know that your 98 isn't good now, and that you'll need to hit a J or a 6 to beat him. Unless you are trying to start a side pot with your draw (for whatever reasons you have: knowing someone will call and disguising your hand for later bluffing to acquire the side pot, etc.) and are sure they will call, this is a bad bet because if you chase the others out, you will have added no equity to the pot. And if you chase them out and hit, you have wasted a good opportunity to possibly make additional side pot equity. But if you had AQ and all checked to you, and with the range of hands the all-in might have you think you are ahead, why would you check again and let the other people in the hand catch up? Why wouldn't you want to take a stab at the pot and define the others hands?
Simply put, this topic goes directly to tournament strategy. Your goal in the early/middle stages of a tourney is to acquire chips. NOT to eliminate people. Surely, you want people to be eliminated. But, more importantly to you is the acquisition of chips. You need to build your stack. Late stages of a tournament require a different strategy. Every time I hear someone say "I won't bet at a dry side pot" I think "thanks, I appreciate you allowing me to complete my hand" and I also think "hmmm....I guess you won't call unless you have something either?"..... It’s telling someone exactly how you are going to play a specific situation every time, and when the other players know that you will always do the same thing you set yourself up for being exploited.