Best strategy for the Hill?

[ctswpt76]

Hey guys,
Figured I'd start a conversation here about the best strategy for playing in BH/CC.

I am an overall loser when I go up there, and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions.

I've tried the 2-4, 2-5 spread, and a few tourneys, but it seems like it's just one suckout after another (aka BINGO), or the tourney's are not structured at all for the players (see TURBO SnG's.....).

So are there any good tournaments worth checking out, and should I just steer clear of the limit HE (I've never tried the Omaha there...but I do like it)?
Or am I better off just going to Vegas to play 6-12 or higher/No limit.....?

Any ideas/thoughts/comments welcome. :)
cts

[PoWdA]

First off on the 2-5 spread... This game is nearly impossible to beat consistently. As a matter of fact I had a guy run some math on it a while back and if you add in the jackpot rake it is theoretically impossible to beat this game in the long run. Sure it can be fun but unless you have years of limit HE experience this game really is a crapshoot. The tourist will beat you out in this game often.
Now basic strategy for this game is very tight, very agressive meaning wait until you have a good hand in position and raise the maximum on every street when you have unless you know your beat. Then fold. It's pretty straight forward but be ready for some huge swings And don't try and "fancy play". This is a very volitile game.
The reason this game is so bad is that 5$ just won't sway that donkey who just "wants to see one more." Also steer clear of the 5/5 game at the lodge, your better off playing the 2-5 "working mans game" then putting it in against guys who have a lot of money but not enough time to go to vegas. I play this game daily against my own advice because I am an idiot, but thus far have managed to stay lucky and squeak out a profit. I wouldn't recomend the omaha hi/lo games unless you know the game well. Good luck in this game.
The tournaments in blackhawk are where you will find the real play up the hill.. With buy-ins ranging from 10$ to 500$ you should be able to find the size tourney you want. The gilpin is running anywhere from 4-5 tournies a day and is pretty much where I would go to play a tourney. You can get a tournament schedule at www.thegilpincasino.com . Also the gates has daily tourneys as does colorado central and ameristar. The lodge and fortune valley are the only casinos that dont have daily tournaments and I have heard that century is having tournies but I have not seen a schedule and cannot confirm this.
Tournament play is tournament play. If you play these good luck and remember that tournaments wins are based on short term luck where cash games are about long term expectation. The best "tournament pros" can go weeks or even months without a cash so keep that in mind. Good luck and I hope this helped!

[loomisdl]

Nice response Powda.

The only place that I've played tournies in Blackhawk was The Gilpin. Blinds are fast (looks like that's the case everywhere), but solid play can get you at least close to the bubble, then you'll need some cards. Bluffing and semi-bluffing early in these tournies can eat up your stack pretty quickly, there's always some donk at your table that'll be willing to put their whole stack at risk just to "look you up".

On the 2-5 spread limit game: I agree with Powda that rocking up and playing ultra tight-aggressive is probably the best strategy. You're not going to run anyone off with a $5 bet so you're going to have to show down the best hand most of the time. That being said, in an active game where there's quite a bit of post-flop play and multiple players are going to the river you need to play speculative hands more often as your implied odds grow. As odd as it sounds IMO your big pocket pairs go down in value and your suited connectors, etc. go up in value. As a bonus the speculative hands are a lot easier to get away from when you whiff the flop.

[PoWdA]

. That being said, in an active game where there's quite a bit of post-flop play and multiple players are going to the river you need to play speculative hands more often as your implied odds grow.

This brings up another big point. You are going to have to show down the best hand to win the pot most of the time. It is very rare to see someone fold on the turn and you often times will see people calling a bet on the river with q high because they busted a draw or some other stupid reason jsut because they feel the need. Once they make it past the flop the players at this game are often going all the way, often times with absoloutly nothing. I honestly don't know what possesses them to do this but I often see players I have marked as solid doing this.

[ctswpt76]

THANKS guys! Great responses all around. And pretty much what I was guessing... :( Reminds me of the last time I played up there when I flopped the K high flush only to have a guy call me all the way to the river with the A and hit the 4th diamond...........it's ugly.

Anyway, I did "cash" in a tourney at Golden Gates, but I got 6th and actually lost $0.50 (and I still had to fill out a "winners" form...lol).

So for the cash games I'm ~ -$300 and in tourneys I'm at -$60.48 :mad:

I'm just trying to prepare myself for the online ban and figure out if the drive up there is worth it at all......

I also agree with loomisdl, that I always seemed to play my high pairs strong only to lose to some :donk: with 6-8 offsuit on the river..........

Well, I'll have to go up there and give the tourney's another shot. I'll post any results when I get back.
Oh and I do like Omaha quite a bit (I play that on Full Tilt more than Hold Em), so maybe there'll be a game going when I'm there and I'll let you know on that too. :)

Thanks again for the great replies! and if anyone else has thoughts, keep em coming.

cts

[Fisher32]

OK, BRAKE CHECK!

First off the only beatable poker game here in Colorado is 2/5 limit holdem. All the others are either bingo or should I say BINGO. The tournys are turbocharged which basically means you're oponent better not be catching cards, and your basically short stacked if you get 1 suck out or take 1 beat down (this is due because they close @ 2AM also). In my opinion these tournys don't benefit the better players what so ever. They're only in place to attract the thousands of TV viewers that want to be like Daniel Neg. so they can fill their poker rooms up and take in the RAKES. I've seen NIT WITZ at the final 5 before and wondered why????????

Any how, ctswpt76, it sounds like you've been around the game for a while now. I would say spend your time searching for a home game full of suckers or got to vegas and play the 15/30 & 30/60 limit games or the 2/5 NL games, stay away from the 5/5 NL games, they're just filled with a bunch of ignorant guys full of pride. You can beat all these games and if your good, probably the players as well. If your looking for a high dollar tourny, try to find one that spreads over 2-3 days or starts you out with atleast 5k chips (very important).

Don't be a sucker, when you find that game here in Colorado, let me know as well.

[ctswpt76]

Thanks Fisher32, very true about the tourneys. The only reason I even made it to 6th on that one was on the 3rd or 4th hand I hit the nut straight against a guy how hit the idiot straight and he gave me all of his chips.

After that I never really had a hand to play and just "coasted" into 6th....

I love Vegas, just wish I could go there every month or so.......

Anyway, at least now I know the hill does not reflect my true game, as I am a consistent winner online and at normal home game tourneys (although those a far and few between...... :( ).

Thanks again, and if/when I go back up to BH, I'll post my thoughts/results.
cts

[pseudoswede]

--Tournaments--

Most of the low buy-in tourneys give you about an M=30 starting out. With 15/20-minute rounds, you're going to have to catch good cards (and good flops!) early to stick around to the final table. Bluffs and semi-bluffs are very risky and should only be done rarely (and if you have a decent read on the opponents).

The two tournies I recommend at The Gilpin are the 10/10/10/10 (if you lay down all $40 at the beginning, you start with 5000 chips) and the 20/20/20 (if you lay down all $60, you start with 4500 chips).

Believe it or not, I think bar poker tourneys gives you great practice for these low buy-in tournaments. In both places, people will play almost any two cards (especially suited).

I don't play the higher buy-in tourneys, but I think you actually start with decent starting chips.

--Limit--

I actually prefer 2/4 limit over the 2-5 spread, but I'll play either game. I'll agree that you'll have to really tighten your starting hands, especially position-wise. Most people up there will play suited cards, any ace (which is extremely dangerous if the flop is an ace with two rags), and connected cards. Unless you flop the nuts, slow-playing will often kill you by the river.

[idh78]

OK, BRAKE CHECK!

The tournys are turbocharged which basically means you're oponent better not be catching cards, and your basically short stacked if you get 1 suck out or take 1 beat down (this is due because they close @ 2AM also). In my opinion these tournys don't benefit the better players what so ever. They're only in place to attract the thousands of TV viewers that want to be like Daniel Neg. so they can fill their poker rooms up and take in the RAKES. I've seen NIT WITZ at the final 5 before and wondered why????????



I could not disagree more with this.....the fact is that we are downright spoiled with the tourney structures in BH....especially at the Gilpin...they generally give away a bunch of extra chips for buying the full amount up front...you generally start with anywhere from 4500-6500 in chips...yes the rounds are generally 15-20 minutes, but go to Vegas and you won't see anything this good for the money.....sure there are some tournies with longer rounds, but you'll either have to spend a ton of money on the buy in or the structure will be worse, sometimes both.

Some examples of tournies in Vegas...

Mandalay Bay $60

500 chips (25 BBs)

10-20 blinds, 15 minute levels.

Flamingo $60

1000 chips (20 BBs)

25-50 blinds, 15 minute levels

Compare that with the Gilpin $60 ($20/$20/$20)

4500 chips (90 BBs)

25-50 blinds, 15 minute levels

My favorite there is the Saturday noon tourney $100 ($40/$30/$30)

6500 chips (130 BBs)

25-50 blinds, 20 minute levels.

The play is generally pretty good in this one and usually has 5-7 tables...

honestly most of the WSOP preliminary events aren't this good, other than having longer levels...

the best tourney structures I found in Vegas are at Stratosphere, Orleans, and the Venetian....and really none of those are as good as what we have here at the Gilpin.

[pseudoswede]

Gilpin's 10/10/10/10 tourney is also great. You start with 5000 chips.

[loomisdl]

My favorite there is the Saturday noon tourney $100 ($40/$30/$30)

6500 chips (130 BBs)



I like this one as well. I've only played in it once a couple of weeks ago, but liked starting with more chips. I was able to accumulate a pretty nice stack early but went card dead when I moved tables and went out 12th out of about 70. Best tourney I've found up there so far.

[douiglas42o]

stupid ****

[ctswpt76]

Ok, so I was obviously playing the WRONG tournaments up there......... I did two Golden Gates $60 no rebuy's and they started with ~2500 in chips...

So thanks for the new posts, I'll have to head up to the Gilpin and try those larger ones to get more play. :)

Hope everyone is doing well with the 2-3 feet of snow.... :scared:

Happy holidays too! May your stockings be full of Kems/Copags/chips/books ;)
cts