Denver Poker Tour

[WOLFEMAN1981]

I was wondering if NE 1 of you guys play in the denver poker tour?

[pseudoswede]

I play in some bar poker tourneys, but I tend to avoid Denver Poker Tour.

[WOLFEMAN1981]

I've only tried it once. There was a lot of IGNORANT people there. They would chase and chase. There was no chance of grinding it out if you didnt catch some cards.

[pseudoswede]

That's the problem with these kinds of tourneys (along with the free ones on-line). I just play my game, and if I get knocked out, oh well...at least I didn't have to pay any money.

[loomisdl]

I played in a free tourney last night at Ironworks - pretty cool, mostly regulars I guess. I don't think it's put on by Denver Poker Tour.

Not many people had any idea how to manipulate pot size/odds (betting T100 in to a T900 pot with two to a suit on the board holding top pair, etc.) and they will NOT fold a flush draw or an OESD (sometimes even gutshots).

[WOLFEMAN1981]

I played in a free tourney last night at Ironworks - pretty cool, mostly regulars I guess. I don't think it's put on by Denver Poker Tour.

Not many people had any idea how to manipulate pot size/odds (betting T100 in to a T900 pot with two to a suit on the board holding top pair, etc.) and they will NOT fold a flush draw or an OESD (sometimes even gutshots).


That's exactly what I am talkin about.


I just wanted to play a little more but can't afford to play more than 1-2 a week for about 20-40 a game.

[Wetdog]

I don't play DPT but I do play in a couple of leagues. Play for the most part is fairly good, but I think you'll find consistantly bad players everywhere. A lot of people enjoy the games for the social aspect.

[pseudoswede]

I just wanted to play a little more but can't afford to play more than 1-2 a week for about 20-40 a game.
The best approach to playing these kinds of tourneys is to play them as if you ARE playing for money. Don't get frustrated by suckouts and people playing awful hands. Play your game, never stoop down to their level, and you'll do well most of the time.

For a $30 investment, look into DD Poker 2. They have an on-line feature where you can play against up to 30 other live players. All of them are looking to become better players and won't play like idiots like at the bars or in on-line freerolls.

[WOLFEMAN1981]

I don't play DPT but I do play in a couple of leagues. Play for the most part is fairly good, but I think you'll find consistantly bad players everywhere. A lot of people enjoy the games for the social aspect.


What leagues? where?

[pseudoswede]

Wolfeman, I sent you a PM.

[Tyrotts]

What leagues? where?

Ya, What leagues? Where?

Thanks

[Wetdog]

What leagues? where?

I'm a north sider, so these are all way up north.

I play at the Fox & Hound at 120th & Sheridan on Wednesday nights. They have their own league there with a tourney every 12 weeks or so.

Rocky Mountain Poker League has games 5 days a week. Monday and Tuesday at Hair of the Dog (formerly Riley's) 7100 W 120th, Thursday and Saturday at In-Kahoots 127th & Lowell, Sundays at Exchange Tavern 119th & Bradburn.

[WOLFEMAN1981]

Thanks for all the info guys!!

[adaugust]

I still play in the DPT. You have your good players and your bad players. I agree with some of the posts above;If you play your game like it is for real money you will make it pretty far most of the time. If I dont make the final table I am at least pretty close. The last 2 weeks I have a win and an 11th place finish.

[DenverPokerTour]

The start of the Fall/Winter session of the Denver Poker Tour will begin October 23rd. Players will be competeing for over 10 seats at the 2007 WSOP. We currently gaurentee 9 satellite seats and 1 Main Event seat will be awarded. We are negotiating for several more seats to be awarded as well. Please look at the Denver Poker Tour official site for more information and schedule of events.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[DenverPokerTour]

The Denver Poker Tour will begin its' Winter / Spring session starting October 23nd, 2006. Players will be competing for AT LEAST 14 Seats to the World Series of Poker. Some of these seats will be Satellite seats, and at least one will be the $10,000 Main Event seat. We will be paying for the airfare and hotel for each seat winner and a guest to attend. Last year, the Denver Poker Tour has 37 players competing in the WSOP throughout the session including 3 players in the Main Event. Three of our players cashed in, including 2 of the 3 players in the Main Event, and one player cashing in twice at two satellite events.

Hopefully YOU will be representing us in the 2007 WSOP.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[rasta]

I haven't played DPT in more than a year and I made the mistake
of doing so tonight. Without a doubt, my experience at Sam's Bar
this evening represents the worst product on the market. There are
many free poker experiences around town and if Sam's is representative
of the DPT, I would encourage everyone to jump ship and hit one
of the other tours.

rasta

[lolo]

Went ther a couple of weeks ago and there were two tables with two dealers but when they called out names there were only 19 people so 8 of us had to be on a waiting list of course I was number 8 so I just left. Was it that big of a deal to have 1 or two players shorter on 1 table?

[loomisdl]

I haven't played DPT in more than a year and I made the mistake
of doing so tonight. Without a doubt, my experience at Sam's Bar
this evening represents the worst product on the market. There are
many free poker experiences around town and if Sam's is representative
of the DPT, I would encourage everyone to jump ship and hit one
of the other tours.

rasta

Any details? Just curious, I haven't played in any DPT events.

[PoWdA]

I played sams bar last sunday and it wasn't that bad... I was pissed because I was going to win(had a huge stack 3 handed) when some lady called all-in with a6 off (I was big stack, she had a stack, she didn't need to risk her tourney here) and I had QQ. board comes 985Q7... Rigged. honestly. Lame.


Anyway I should mention that DPT does a tourney at La Boheme (strip club) at 14th and stout saturday at 1:00. If you are playing poker there is no cover. Free strip club via DPT :-D

[DenverPokerTour]

I am sorry that your experience at Sam's wasn't as enjoyable as it could have been. Unfortunately FREE poker isn't 100% FREE. The locations pay ALL poker tours to bring in the games. If the location feels that it is in their best interest to only run one table nad have a small waitlist, then that is their choice. The location will not pay for a poker table to be used when there is only a few people left to play on it. They location needs to make revenue in order to pay for our services.
You stated that you were on the waitlist... what number? Usually the location decides how many tables to run approximately 15 minutes before game time is to start. The locations are upset that people walkin between 10 to 5 minutes before the game starts, and then complain about having to wait.
The location didn't know you were coming, so they didn't prepare for you. Maybe if you arrived a 1/2 hour before the schedules start time, then they would appreciate your presence and woul;d be more willng to accomodate you.
This happens in ALL tours, and is not specific to the DPT.
We are sorry for any incovenience this may have caused you, and hope you will try our game again.

Thank you,

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[lolo]

Brian, thanks for the response and I can understand some of the points you made, I would like to say that if the locations are upset about people showing up 5-10 min. before start time maybe they shouldn't allow people to call in 5 hours early and have there names put on the list. So when people like myself show up at least 30 min early to enjoy some drinks and relax don't usually get put on the waiting list. Anyway really other than the waiting lists witch can be a bit long sometimes I was #8 at Sams and #13 at Longshots one night I have to say my experience with the game has been very enjoyable. Thanks

[Brent_in_Aurora]

Whenever I have played in one of these tourneys, I have been on the waiting list, which moved pretty fast, say, under a half hour. I have enjoyed these tourneys and I would not normally be in the bars without them.

[rasta]

Mr. Masters - thank you for the response. To be somewhat clinical
in my response, I was there 30 minutes before start time, I was
number 5 on the wait list of 9 or slightly more. That's not unacceptable.
My problem came when the dealer for the 2nd table took the 11 seat.
If 9 waiting while a dealer plays is acceptable to you, then so be it.
It's you're business. It was nearly 9pm before all players were in and
in fact, all 9 weren't there because some left.
To me, that seems a bit out of the ordinary. It could have been one
of those judgement call things, but again, it's your business.

rasta

[DenverPokerTour]

All of the dealers have been informed that if they are scheduled to work and are not needed, they may play, but only if they are the last player on the waitlist. I will discuss this matter with both dealers at Sam's again.


Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[DenverPokerTour]

The National January Winners Tournament for winners from the month of December was held at Table Steaks East on last Friday January 12, 2007. 215 players battled from 7:00 pm to approximately 2:15 am. The Final Two Heads' Up were Steve Lucero and Jen Myers. With both players just slightly off of being even in chips, they were dealt the following hands.

Steve Lucero (SB)- Pocket Queens and Jen Myers (BB) King - Five off suit. Steve called the (BB) and Jen checked. The Flop came 5 - 2 - 2 giving both players two pair. Steve immediately went All In. Jen thought about her hand for well over a minute, then called. Both players showed their cards. The Turn and the River came, and neither card helped either player. Steve Lucero won the Tournament and is the recipient of a $1000.00 Seat at the 2007 World Series of Poker, plus hotel and airfare for two.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[DenverPokerTour]

The Mid-Way session tournament for the Denver Poker Tour will be March 10th, 2007 at Table Steaks East. Players who have won an invitation to this event since October 23rd, 2006 up till March 9th, 2007 will be competing for prizes including 2 2007 World Series of Poker Seats, and THOUSANDS of dollars in cash & prizes. registration begins at 9 PM and the tournament will start promptly at Noon. For any questions, please feel free to visit the website.


Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[jbuckley217]

I've played several games at Cadillac Jack's on Friday afternoons and would like to gripe for a minute.

Quality of play is not my issue. Fair elements of really good players and calling stations. Same as anywhere and really can't be controlled by DPT staff.

My gripes are these:

1. There are often 20-plus people on waiting lists. Open another table! This is crazy. Other tours of which I'm familiar DO NOT do this. Please rethink this policy.

2. This past Friday, I arrived at 11:01AM for signup that began at 11:00AM. Walk-in sign up is required and phone-in sign up is allegedly prohibited. When I walked in, two others were walking out. I was number 25 on the list. Complete crap. Either they signed up multiple people each (they did if I'm any judge of handwriting but not all 24 people ahead of me) and/or people are signing up earlier than the rules allow. EITHER ENFORCE THE RULES OR DON'T HAVE THEM!

[DenverPokerTour]

I am sorry that you didn't receive the service that you were expecting at the Cadillac Jacks game on Friday. So bear with me while I address your concerns.

1. We at the Denver Poker Tour have no problem opening additional tables at a location. However, it is up to the location to decide how many tables they want us to run. The location has a budget for these games, if players are not providing the location with enough of a reason to open an additional table, then the location will not pay us for operating the table. Hence, it will not be open.

2. The sign up list, and how it is implemented is up to the location. We do not dictate to our locations how they are to allow people to sign up. If the list had multiple names on it when you signed up, chances are the location is placing names on the list in expectance of their regular players to arrive and participate in the afternoon game. If the location wants to sign up their regular players, that would be their right.

As a suggestion I would offer this, Complain to the establishment about the shortage of tables that THEY provide. If they value you as a patronage of their establishment... I am sure they will do what it takes to correct the situation for you.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[jbuckley217]

Is Alan amongst the management team or just the day shift bartender?

[DenverPokerTour]

Alan is the Bar Manager. Every day he calls the owner of Cadillac Jacks and asks how many tables to run.

On a side note, I personally play at Cadillac Jacks and have requested that they open up additional tables as needed. They are generally accomodating.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[lolo]

Again. 7pm Thursday night Sams bar. 1 table, 10 more on the waiting list #10 sits down at 9:15 and the dealer calls a 15min break, WTF?

[ctswpt76]

Sounds like a new Venue and/or League may be better for you......?
I don't know where Sams is located, but seems like every other bar is playing poker these days, so it can't be too hard to find a different game.
If you don't like the customer service, take your business elsewhere.

Just my .02
cts

[DenverPokerTour]

Once again I must explain how "FREE POKER" works. If the location feels that they are getting their ROI (return on investment) from the players who play, then the location will offer an additional table. This is NOT our decision. We will always put an additional table in a location when the location wants it.
As far as the dealer calling for a break, the dealer has been instructed to call for a break immediately after the last person on the list has been seated. The original "break" was scheduled after 1 hour 30 minutes into the game regardless if all players were in the game or not. We changed that rule this last weekend.
I suggest that you contact the location and ask them why they didn't operate an additional table last night. You might be surprised of their response.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[nrkofover]

One thing that a lot of the free poker players don't understand is that the managers of the poker game have to meet the needs of the establishment as well as the needs of the players. I played at a free game for almost a year and the bar wouldn't open a second table unless 24 people were on the premises and ready to play at the stated start time. If you know that, you're less likely to be upset. In contrast, I deal at a bar that only needs 18 players to open a second table.

The philosophy for each of these bar owners is different. One believes that having players sit means they won't leave before playing, the other believes that their players will gladly stick around until they were seated. The owner who seats 18 even turns his prizes into cash rather than bar tabs if he can seat 30 (3 tables) at the start time. Both approaches are functional for their own reasons and like was said above, there are so many games to play, find the location and the structure and the players you enjoy rather than being upset with the places that only cause you grief.

[DenverPokerTour]

Recently the Colorado Department of Labor, State of Colorado, and the Internal Revenue Service stated that the dealers and management of "poker tour" companies were not contractors, but in fact full fledged employees. This meant that "poker tour" companies had to offer like any other LEGAL business:

General Liability Insurance, Workers Compensation, Unemployment Benefits, State Withholding Taxes, Federal Withholding Taxes, Social Security Matching Contribution, Colorado Employee Head Tax, and many more. We also had to abide by the EEOC, OSHA, FLSA, USERRA, and Fair Employment Act.
Does your "poker tour" do this?

The State of Colorado and the Colorado Department of Labor has informed us that other "poker tours" in the state will have to abide the guidelines set forth by State and Federal law, or they will not be allowed to operate their business.

Is this going to leave you without a "poker tour" in your bar? Does failure to comply to these new laws jeopardize your establishment or your game? Maybe you should check with your legal counsel.
Some legal questions for you to consider.

Q: Am I allowed to award more chips or preferred seating to players who purchase food or drink at my establishment?

A: No, this is construed as a buy in as is illegal.

Q: Can I charge players a minimum drink or food purchase in order for them to play?

A: No, it's illegal. It constitutes a buy-in.

Q: But my "poker tour" company said I could.

A: The Denver Poker Tour has been doing this longer than anyone. If something is legal, we would most likely be doing it. If your company is doing something that we aren't, you might want to check with your legal counsel.

Q: So if my "poker tour" is doing something illegal, am I responsible?

A: What do you think?


Denver Poker Tour, we are the best for a reason. We look out for our clients.

Questions or comments, please feel free to contact me at [email protected]

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

PS. We really love the fact that after spending over $50,000 fighting this in court over the last 6 months, other "tours" still say they don't have to abide by this or won't.

[pseudoswede]

Recently the Colorado Department of Labor, State of Colorado, and the Internal Revenue Service stated that the dealers and management of "poker tour" companies were not contractors, but in fact full fledged employees. This meant that "poker tour" companies had to offer like any other LEGAL business:


Management, sure. But I don't know how the state can force you to employ the dealers. The other question is: how many of your (and other tour companies') dealers will want to actually be an employee? Most, I assume, work only 1-3 nights a week. That means they would now have to report their wages (probably the same as a waitress/bartender?) PLUS tips. Granted, I've never worked in the restaurant industry, but I'm not sure if it would be worth someone's time that works only 4-16 hours a week.

[DenverPokerTour]

Actually the State of Colorado and the IRS said that we HAVE to treat ALL staff as employees. They HAVE forced us to do this. If the other "tours" don't want to do this, that is fine with us. In fact several of them have said they don't intend to abide by the law. Great news for us, this will mean less competition for us, and Fines, Penalties, and possible jail time for our competitors.

The State and the IRS has ruled that this is going to happen. We spent over $50,000 in money fighting this and lost. This is just another example of how the Denver Poker Tour continues to be the leader in the industry. The government came after us first, and we fought it and lost. We took it upon ourselves to fight this matter with no help from the other "tours". But I am sure the government will be going ater the other companies soon.

As far as "dealers" not wanting to be employees, they don't really have say in the matter. They are employees, according to the government, and will be treated as such.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[ak77451]

Actually the State of Colorado and the IRS said that we HAVE to treat ALL staff as employees. They HAVE forced us to do this. If the other "tours" don't want to do this, that is fine with us. In fact several of them have said they don't intend to abide by the law. Great news for us, this will mean less competition for us, and Fines, Penalties, and possible jail time for our competitors.

The State and the IRS has ruled that this is going to happen. We spent over $50,000 in money fighting this and lost. This is just another example of how the Denver Poker Tour continues to be the leader in the industry. The government came after us first, and we fought it and lost. We took it upon ourselves to fight this matter with no help from the other "tours". But I am sure the government will be going ater the other companies soon.

As far as "dealers" not wanting to be employees, they don't really have say in the matter. They are employees, according to the government, and will be treated as such.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

Why the hell should I care as a consumer?

[DenverPokerTour]

Because as a consumer:

Who do you sue if you don't receive your prizes?
Who do you go after if a "dealer" assaults you?
Who do you go after if the equipment hurts you?
Which "Tour" will you play in if your "TOUR" is shut down for non-compliance.
As a "Dealer" don't you want certain protection and rights?
What legal standing do you have as a player?

You are not a "consumer", you are a "player". The event location is the "consumer". The "consumer" pays for its' goods and services (the Poker Tour), the "player" pays for their food and/or drink from the "consumer" (the event location).

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[ak77451]

Because as a consumer:

Who do you sue if you don't receive your prizes?
Who do you go after if a "dealer" assaults you?
Who do you go after if the equipment hurts you?
Which "Tour" will you play in if your "TOUR" is shut down for non-compliance.
As a "Dealer" don't you want certain protection and rights?
What legal standing do you have as a player?

You are not a "consumer", you are a "player". The event location is the "consumer". The "consumer" pays for its' goods and services (the Poker Tour), the "player" pays for their food and/or drink from the "consumer" (the event location).

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

1.) I wouldnt sue anyone, because its free and I could care less
2.) Dealer assaults and equiptment hurting me? What is this attack of the killer poker tours?
3.) If one shuts down ill just go play at another one...

[Bruno]

Because as a consumer:

Who do you sue if you don't receive your prizes?
Who do you go after if a "dealer" assaults you?
Who do you go after if the equipment hurts you?
Which "Tour" will you play in if your "TOUR" is shut down for non-compliance.
As a "Dealer" don't you want certain protection and rights?
What legal standing do you have as a player?

You are not a "consumer", you are a "player". The event location is the "consumer". The "consumer" pays for its' goods and services (the Poker Tour), the "player" pays for their food and/or drink from the "consumer" (the event location).

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

If I play in one of the bar tour games Brian, I'm a "customer": of both the "tour" operator and the bar (assuming I purchase something...). If I like the dealer's service, I might tip them. If I'm thirsty or hungry, I might buy some drink or food.

answering your questions:
If it was the DPT, I'd sue the DPT and you.
"a dealer assaults" me?....fear mongering Brian?
"equipment hurts" me?....what? the table collapses? again I'd sue the DPT and you.
the others I could not care less about.

I don't think I know you Brian but, you've posted a lot of defensive posts and a bit of fear mongering. Some have been a bit condescending
Once again I must explain how "FREE POKER" works..
That's not good business. Without the people playing in your events, the bars will drop the DPT. Treat the people who come to the events with respect and with value, give them a great experience, and reward them for good results and you'll be able to take back some of the market share that the APT has taken from you. This is what you're talking about when you refer to other "tours", isn't it?

[DenverPokerTour]

I wrote a very long - winded response to your letter. Then I thought about it ,and deleted it.

I don't need to reply.

This "discussion" was started to let people know that the State of Colorado and the IRS were changing the laws on how "poker tours" will have to operate. The Denver Poker Tour operates LEGALLY! Some other companies do not.

So instead of spending time and money on the ongoing battle of "poker tours" in Colorado, I decided to let the State of Colorado and the IRS handle my job for me. By the time they are done with these "poker tours" who haven't paid taxes, aren't treating their staff as employees, don't offer the minimum required benefits, many of these "poker tours" will be gone.

Best marketing I could ever have done.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

[Bruno]

I wrote a very long - winded response to your letter. Then I thought about it ,and deleted it.

I don't need to reply.

This "discussion" was started to let people know that the State of Colorado and the IRS were changing the laws on how "poker tours" will have to operate.

No Brian, this thread was started by Wolfman and he was complaining about bad play at the DPT and wanted to know where else there was to play. You hijacked it to "discuss" the laws, intonate how your "tour" business was "better" then others and got no help financially from other "tours" to fight the laws you didn't like. Then you made some silly attempt at fear mongering....


So instead of spending time and money on the ongoing battle of "poker tours" in Colorado, I decided to let the State of Colorado and the IRS handle my job for me. By the time they are done with these "poker tours" who haven't paid taxes, aren't treating their staff as employees, don't offer the minimum required benefits, many of these "poker tours" will be gone.

Best marketing I could ever have done.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour

I can think of alot of things to retort to the above paragraph. I'll keep most of 'em to myself. One way way to beat your competition in business is to have them eliminated from the marketplace by outside forces. I've always preferred to "out-compete" them by offering better goods and services...

Disclaimer: I have no allegiance to any of the "free" poker tours. I prefer to play for cash.

[kraizevoodoo]

I play alot of DPT and a lot in Vegas they are kinda no different.

Your going to have a wide range of players. and since they are at a bar it is very simlair style of play. You have tight players, semi-pros, calling stations, drunkards, decent players, great players, complete tards and donkeys etc. if you can't handle then stay out of 1-2, 3-6, even 4-8 tables in vegas.

I have played at cricket on the hill for two months. also i haved played Harrys, Park, Public house as well.

[DenverPokerTour]

We would like to thank Poker Goddess, and many of the others, for coming over to our company. We feel that their knowledge and extensive information will be an asset to our company. There are quite a few more surprises in store for the DPT in the next several months, including a MAJOR POKER TOURNAMENT WEEKEND IN LAS VEGAS for all Denver Poker Tour Players. Stay tuned to the Denver Poker Tour website for more details and information.

Brian Masters
Denver Poker Tour